World: r3wp

of course this is what we wanted with makedoc ..

to create text, pdf, etc

Tao is no more - they went bancrupt. Tao was imo not very special, 
yet similar to REBOL. Remember - they had to code in kind of Rebcode 
ASM, to get the speed. And R3, once platform plug-ins are ready, 
will allow to replace certain parts, e.g. rendering.

I thought about VID3-2-Flash converter, but I am not sure those things 
are possible, without REBOL. Remember - VID is being parsed, 'parse 
is evaluated in REBOL. REBOL is everywhere in the equation. The trick 
is - show Flash, Ruby, Python guys, that View is nice and runs in 
the browser. Then they will try to copy it. Then they will find out, 
they need REBOL anyway. Then they will find out, that REBOL is actually 
smaller, than most of their libraries. Then they will drop Ruby, 
Python etc. :-)

In order to get VID3 to work in Flash, you would need to recode the 
whole thing in Flash itself. The same goes for other environments. 
It is imo easier to port REBOL to those tools, although it might 
be slow. IMO REBOL ported to JAVA would be interesting project ....

I was thinking more of a code generator

If you want a killer app, let's finish VID3, put extension things 
in-place, simply create "a platform", then let's create browser plug-in 
- that is a killer app, because it provides you with seamless integration. 
And it will work out of the box, no REBOL code changes or limitations.

remember - ajax is crap. Show me one single grid, powerfull as Henrik's 
grid, which is consistent, not hundreds of KBs of chaotic code. VID3 
app has imo potential to kill ANY web-based wanna-be apps, which 
try to pretend, they are desktop-like apps. Web is web, it should 
stay that way - forms, portal, but not rich-apps.

the reality is that the world is moving to rich web apps

yes, they try to, for ages already.

It's just the poor thinking they're rich

V3 won't be there until it can build a browser window

that scales as well as a web browser

Web browsers scale well?

That is not needed. Nor python or anyone else implement full html 
support.

better than V2

Not my Firefox that is hanging my machine all the time for a while

I'd still rather user FF than Lynx

Well, to ppl to which source code is not important, there is no help 
:-) Look into mixture of your html, css, js (ajax) code, server parts, 
etc. That is simply - terrible. I hope R3 with rebservices provide 
us great advantage here ... we will see ....

Lynx scales, though. :-) And it sounds it can be implemented in VID3 
:-)

FF is ok here :-) IE mostly too (IE7).

FF is okay for me too

I understand Graham - we talk vapor here. R3 is not here, nor is 
VID3, nor is web plug-in. Potential is here, but other world is not 
slowing down, it is the opposite - they are strenghtenign web-apps 
position ...

perhaps FF just hangs on Syllable platform??

Youn guys obviously haven't tried ABrowse :-)

Amiga version?

Syllable app. We don't have FF and are not sure we want it

The only things I will miss with View is the possibility of integration 
- how to display video inside of View face? How to display embedded 
html page inside the Face? (imo we should look into khtml webkit 
here, mozilla's embedding stuff is said to be complicated)

Anyway, I would to see V3 create windows that can scroll easily with 
text and graphics as browser  windows do

FF is extremely bad at multi-threading. Unix philosophy: MT is bad

a browser container for IE or whatever would be very nice

Yes, FF's Gecko engine is unwieldy and they're currently decreasing 
portability. WebKit is much easier to embed

How's R3's rich text facilities ?

Where's our Deep Throat when we need him??

Graham;  It's Cypher code so ... wow is how.  Impressive use of REBOL 
dialecting imho.

The need to render simple HTML & PDF within the app is the reason 
I have not used R2 on internal projects. I've had to move on to web 
apps and I'm using more Python now than Rebol. The screenshot on 
Henrik's blog is very, very good! Web apps, for good or bad, are 
here and now and "rich" web app frameworks  are  actively being developed. 
Rebol faces a lot of competition in this area. The R3  potential 
is amazing and whilst I have my own priorites for new features, I 
look forward to trying out the beta when it's released. Can I just 
say thanks to all of the developers for their hard work so far.

Perhaps we need a list of deal breakers like this?

Printing has always been a major problem

But since it has been a platform specific problem - it has never 
been addressed

Yes, I already named it - the most tough part is - how to seamlessly 
integrate. We will need JAVA or .Net integration sooner than later. 
Reading reboltalk.com discussions, I can see, that Gabriele does 
kind of bad job there, claiming that having REBOL for .Net contradict 
REBOL purpose. I can't agree ...

If rebol is going to be a dll .. won't that help there?

Other integration is web technologies - there are here to stay .... 
I don't think we will be successfull in creating html, css output 
it rebol. Do we want to write web-browser in rebol? OTOH, even Python, 
using e.g. VxWidgets, has rather simple html support widget, not 
full browser support. So, DaveC, what kind of html integration in 
Python are you talking about?

And if we need full html support, well then, I suggest khtml webkit, 
as Mozilla is known of being difficult to wrap (unless situation 
changed from two years ago. They are supposed to have minimo or something 
like that for mobile devices)

rebol as .dll or even static lib will help much. You will be able 
to integrate e.g. to Delphi, call rebol from your other app. But 
- does JAVA use dlls? Does net use dlls? I don't know, but I doubt.

Having REBOL in JAVA would get rebol onto most mobile devices and 
nearly everywhere. OTOH - JAVA on mobile devices is restricted, not 
consistent across the platforms - just ask Cyphre for his experience. 
So, maybe, and I repeat - maybe - it will be easier to port REBOL 
to most platforms, rather than to do REBOL-in-JAVA project.

Other thing is - how you get REBOL onto cell phone? There is JAVA 
there. You are not allowed to upload other kind of apps.

Here's an example of integration - http://www.codeplex.com/Wiki/View.aspx?ProjectName=IronPython
- you simply get whole .Net infrastructure available to Python.

But we have to decide on priorities. As for me, I prefer finished 
R3 with plug-ins, and then web browser plugin. I think we can break-thru 
with REBOL itself. Those kind of integrations can come later.

My main interest is in building stand alone applications so I have 
less requirement for .net and java

Is use by fortune 500 companies important?   Is this needed to validate 
Rebol's existence?