[Rebol School] Rebol School
I want to kick of some sort of simi-regular Rebol School for new comers. We need to expose more people to Rebol, the best way is a 2 hour school online. I'm thinking like the old days where we all jump online, but I want Video too! My idea is that we would focus on a given topic, like: parse, data driven programming, view, etc. Someone would be picked as the lead speaker, and someone else might be in charge of moderating the Chat. People could ask for examples, and would write them up on the spot. Hopefully many Rebol Experts would be on hand to throw some samples up. I have about 5 newbies that really want lessons. I know that another 5-7 of my team would be present to help, to learn, to be friendly. Any one else interested? Anyone know the best way (what software) to do this?
I've seen people use a free SWF tool to generate flash movies of what's going on, on the desktop. is it something like that you want?
http://www.gnustep.org/experience/DevelopmentDemonstration.html<--- example (no sound)
http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/<--- tool used
I was hopping for a broadcast video + sound, and let a moderator take in coming questions and give them to the lead.
Plus let others help. Sort of a multi-prong learning venue.
All that matters is that people get answers.
i hate to say this but maybe MSN? =/
Yeah, I'm open to this. I'm open to everything, I just want something that works for everyone.
Hey Reichart ...if you can add one more to your newbies list =) ( me )
All are going to be welcome, once we work this out, I plan to post the time(s) here, on Qtask, and on .Org. WE need more community lessons, so I'm going to kick this off.
It iwll be fun to have sort of a loose open convo, and just play with a couple of "words" or conecepts.
Nothing too heavy. But sometimes people just need a little demo in real time, and also there is an energy to a bunch of people being around at the same time. This will be good. Since all are going to be welcome I think it may end up being 10-15 people online at the same time.
i did this kind of realtime coding once. i wrote a forth vm in awk at the #[forth-:-irc-:-freenode-:-net]. what i missed those times was a simple cooperative editor. it can b imagined as a whiteboard but there is only 1 "painting" tool is available, a cursor for writing text. (i was at the end of a 33.6kbps modemline those times, so i havent dared to dream about video :)
i gave testdrive to some cooperative editors but most of them didnt work at all :( and their interface was a crap anyway.
hey, what client do u use for altme-ing so u can react so fast?
i have also tried the above mentioned vnc2swf. well.. its okay but thats just video... still can b a way to go, but we need some rebol movie editors (flash/mjpg). some1 (gregg?) at the conference mentioned such a thing..
Client? I use AltME, just AltME.
On Windows (if that helps).
I am also in the same buidling as the server though (for Rebol3).
aaha! thaaat helps really! :)
btw, invitation codes for my collegues?
Almost have that done. Will have it Monday, we are still testing this.
There was some small problems, so we are testing really well.
oookay, good to know
Have you tried MoonEdit. It's a cooperative editor : you can be several editing the same text in realtime. Funny! But not sure "usefull" can be an adjectiv.
Hi Recihart I would be interested in learning.
I've had good luck with Skype
Is this still open? I'd like to enlist, as a student.
Is this project still alive? What I would like is to develop a feeling for what I should master first to start programming significant applets in Rebol. At the present moment, Rebol looks to me like a forest of trees each with innumerable branches, every one of them I should master.
All the docs seem to be either dictionnaries of the language or very specific examples of how-tos that give you the application described. Nice and usefull but not for becoming proficient from zero (or near zero).
I'm wishing for a good learning roadmap, I guess.
(I'm a teacher. Does it show? ;-)
Hello Denis, So, one of the things a group of us have been talking about is doing some group lessons (world wide). We have researched some tools for making this possible. We narrowed it down to Macromedia's Breeze. In fact last week I talked for about 2 hours with their team (meaning the people that actually designed and programmed it). This week I'm talking to their OEM leads about integrating Breeze from Rebol into Web applications. So our first Breeze interactive lesson will be in a few weeks is my guess. WE have not idea how good it will be with more than 10 people, and world wide, but we are going to try. As to a road map. Programming languages in general are difficult to learn in a methodical method. Rebol being even more difficult (in my opinion), because learning the structure does not help very much. Even learning how Rebol works is not all that usefull (compared to lets say Basic, or a Batching system). I will make some simple suggestions though: 1. Go to Rebol.com, and read what is offered there. It actually is a good starting point. Rebol Essentials" which is a PDF on the site is worth reading. 2. Write your own dictionary. Literally, pick a given word in Rebol, use it in a sentence. And just work your way through all 400+ words. You can do it in a few hours. All you need to do is try to use it in a way the Rebol Dictionary does not use it. 3. Build something you really want to build. Unless you have a goal, working on anything is going to be boring. Think of a utility, or a game that you have always wanted to understand better, or want to play with, and build it. Another cool concept is to simply copy it from an existing version in some other language you already know, or that is more simple (like Basic).
I think you will find people here very helpful as well. The signal to noise around here is about as good as it gets.
What do you mean by integrating Breeze from Rebol? btw - are Macromedia ppl aware of rebol at all? Or was it kind of "re ...what?". Just curious ....
I'm glad you agree that Rebol requires a different road map to learn than, say, C++ or Pascal, or even Prolog and such languages. I know a few languages, having been a programmer for a living in my younger days. Now I teach programming for young students starting in science (18 years old +)
My mastery is now more in teaching than in programming. I've thinkered with the idea of maybe teaching Rebol to some of our students. But I would have to understand it really well before tempting that. Sure I can learn and memorize some syntax. But C++ has something like 40 basic instructions to master, not 400. And you can start to programm significant apps in C++ with a very limited set of instructions.
With Rebol, I do not see yet the "logic" or philosophy behind the syntax of instructions. Maybe there isn't one and I' m waiting to see something, a pattern, that is not there? So, in any case, I would like to be part of the "school" experiment you are planning, if possible. This is a good opportunity for me. And maybe I could supply some of my pedagogical experience in this project at some time in the future.
rebol's basic concept is - [ ] a block .... that is the only one significat element :-)
it is a series .... [this is what?] - now how can you tell what is inside? is it code? or literal data? try to execute it with "do" - if it fails, it was not code :-)
And thanks for the ideas you have given me. I am taking note of them. And yes, I do have a project or two I want to write in Rebol. Maybe I should choose the instructions from the dictionary with the aim to integrate them in on of my projects.
Yes, Pekr, like lisp and other list processing languages.
hmm, I never thought about it, but you are probably right - I tought one of my friends rebol for quite some time, and he was always nervous a bit, when I told him - look, there is special function for that ....
The difference is that in C/C++ you have to build any simple function with the 40 basic instructions you have in the language. So any application become quickly huge in source code. Rebol has so much words because, many simple functions are already built-in. And in fact, most of them are in Rebol code (there are of function! type) and are build with basic (native! and op! type) and other simple one. This is one of the reason why Rebol script are so tiny. Many things you need are already there.
Maybe the thing would be to organise the functions in categories... "If you want to do this, here are the usefull functions..." ? I'm not sure this is possible, but I will keep this in mind when learning Rebol.
probably the fastest way to find out is to try console help system, it does also partial searches ... it could help novices .... >> help fo ..... and look what is printed .... that is how I started to see, if there is some named function according to what I think such a name could be ...
hmm, there is a Dictionary, and it is in categories, but not much of a categories ...