[PowerPack] discussions about RP
To become part of the RP a library will need to adhere to these requirements: - BSD license - docs in HTML/makedoc - code accepted by RP lead
I am the lead (and have been working on this some time). Any code that you have that you want included you can send to me by email.
The powerpack has Carl's blessing. The idea is to provide a quality assured set of libraries that can help (semi-)professional developers to get things done.
Some candidates *right now* are: - mysql:// -postgres:// -Uniserve -Rugby (of course ;-) -REBgui -cgi + cookie libs -async http:// -async://
< your contribution here>
Think Activestate Perl/TCL/Python, the REBOL way.
Great idea. Thanks for setting it up.
Great idea ;)
Have a chat, if you haven't already, to Robert about the RPC as there may be some overlap in efforts. I'm more than happy to work with you to ensure RebGUI fits the proposed model (from both a code and documentation perspective). Some things to consider: - Coding standard(s) - Documentation standard(s) - Optimization methodology - Testing methodology - REBOL baseline (I'd aim for 1.3 - forget the past) I've said this to a few people on AltME already, but for this type of project to succeed it needs four things: 1) Technology (including a sound & easily understood conceptual basis) 2) Documentation (good documentation is better than good code) 3) Momentum (a sense that things are happening) 4) Community (an environment where people are encouraged to contribute) Getting all four right is *hard* work. *My* definition of success for a project is to be able to answer YES to the following two questions: 1) Does it work? 2) Is it used?
Ashley I'm Absolutly agreed with your point of view !!! The way to participate actively to a project can take a lot of shapes. 1) make doc 2) making code optimisation 3) adding brand new code 4) debugging 5) giving feedbacks and needs 6) making translation 7) making sample code (as far as I saw in my peronnal experience it's easier to understand how to use a thing if you provide a sample code that's an illustration not a goal. Sample code alone are only accessible to yet powerred users. Documentation without sample code is abstract. That's for example what I like in the rebol documentation diccionnary it explains and shows you concretly little sample to pretty understand the cancept explain... Making good doc is a hard and painfull task ... If it belongs only to one people my personnal expirence shows me that the effort is not made along a long time... so it's obvious that we need a doc commity where people emulates each others and fixe periodically new goals. In French speaking community we all share teh same point of view that' why we try to put at disposal of all the people some usefull tools like a dokuwiki in http://www.rebolfrance.org and doc collectors in http://www.rebolfrance.frand http://rebdocproj.sourceforge.net/) our public is french speaking mainly but we are so few that we can't say hey our tools are for french speaking people only. So if those tools seems you usefull for any project and any information sharing or cooperative work go ahead use them ;)
informatical documentation in general are very close to math ones. You can't aquiere new concept in geometry without have the spacial illustration of what you get explained more longer in the text. :)
Documentation is different from the level of knowledge of the reader
a good documentation must respond to all type of question and knowledge ... Using cooperativ dynamic writing/publishing tools other to redactors and readers a close interaction if you read a documentation and steel have questions you can mail, altme, or forum the redactors to makes your ask in order for them to bettering the documentation very fast
but the weak point is that REBOL coding is so gorgeous that you mmost of the time prefer spend your free time to make script than documenting them ;)
for example on french scene forum the amount of information on rebol coding is so high that we can't easyly synthetise it into a meanning documentation. Why ? because structural we choose a forum based interface betwin coders without taking strictly the time to produce a syntetic documentation for every issues that were submitted and discussed on the solution apported from the very beginning (a participant number issue is in the scope too )
So know synthetising the informations on our forum to make it disponnible for every one is a very very hudge task (more than 20 000 topics it's hard to sort and put in value ...)
the inter documentation referecing is too a weak point some needed concept are maybe availlable yet some where but then you need to specify it into your documentation to orient the reader :)
Ashley: I have talked with Robert already
Note that RP will be bundling all those good (proven?) libs and make them accessible from one place. Your rebgui, but also mysql:// are excellent examples. But imagine your new to REBOL, wouldn't it be nice if there were a link on rebol.net /.com that gave you immediate access to these libs?
Good points, Maarten about accessibility. If I were looking for an alternative REBOL GUI and typed REBOL GUI into Google, I'd probably soon conclude that there wasn't one. And that might end my evaluation of REBOL. Having many useful tools scattered across personal websites has other weaknesses too -- look at how hard it's been for people to find Gavin MacKenzies's XML libraries after his personal website went offline.
I will just addon..with the vaious 'powerpacks' in place.. it is possible to build something similiar to 'Ruby on Rails' I believe the French community already have some well defined framework called Magic!... and we have Temple(?) lying around somewhere.
That's why I am doing this. I will start as Strong Leader, simply to make a Fast Start. Once the powerpack is well-established others may (and probably want to) join.
Docs Uniserve is GPL'd ..
Can Uniserve be used for a "rails" implementation?
http://www.rubyonrails.com/.. I was just reading Yeksoon's reference above.
wow, looking at the video http://media.nextangle.com/rails/rails_setup.mov
Marteen I think RebDB should also be part of the RP.
Rebol on Rockets!!!
don't forget make-doc! :)) and maybe pdfmaker?
I'm building some extensions for pdfmaker so that might be a good one
Uniserve is very nice, I have been using it to prototype/test before I upload to actual server. It broke my heart it was gpl. BSD is very good choice. Free software should not be restricted, and GPL has too many of those. makedoc/spec is the killer app, and in that intensional programming vein is coursing all the best documentation, and REBOL does a fine job of documenting itself because it is so semantic by nature. To understand how to use a moderately complex system like a full-featured web server, it is going to be important to capture the thinking of those who wrote the code. REBOL parsing allows all information pertaining to the code to be right there with the code, and a function of DO -ing anything. the standard documentation scheme should follow how REBOL  headers work, and simply have the makedoc embedded within the scripts.
but if you close free software, it is not free to your users, so restricted, which it should not be?
BSD is good. GPL is not.
was all I was saying. I don't mind that uniserv is gpl, but thing gpl incompatible with BSD
BSD allows jailing free birds. GPL forces to let them go free next spring :) and only if they want to go with their binary offsprings.
BSD->GPL works pretty well. GPL->special license agreement will work pretty well to. But jaillable software usually has to be paid.
what do you mean by jailable. not a term I am familiar with regarding software.
For that matter, what do you mean by software being paid. Do you mean paid for?
no, I am saying that any software that purports to be "free" should not restrict my use. It is not free if it forces me into a box.
it is coercive in the same way EULA is
jailable: taking free software, change a bit, close it. BSD. paid: yes. goto DcKimbel, say "your Uniserv is wooonderfull!! How many bucks". I am sure you can make a deal and jail - uhm, close your project as much as you want.
But use has to be restrict somehow. either your use, or the use of your users. some people think its better to restrict nobody except the restricters. means you in this case.
very good. crazy dual star that free as in spirit <--> free as in not paid.
BSD guys may think "ah, but you are a coder! much more like us. about the users, well.." ;)
GPL says nothing about "not paid". It says, if your * breaks you can go to everyone who can repair *. be * car, refridgerator or some softwarre.