World: r3wp

someone at Microsoft must have wanted to be sure that we could speak 
in rebol easily

you would need some escape char :-)

now if I could just get it to capitalize rebol I would be happy

:-)) I think it was by-design ....

let me just tried using the word [in a sentence -- interesting

they do not ever actually spell out the word [it is always assumed 
to be the punctuation mark

() [] brace embrace

two out of three isn't bad

I think see programmers would have a problem -- because brace does 
not show up as punctuation

I will move out of this room now -- sorry about the distraction to 
your conversation

wrt speech recognition: I use Dragon Naturallyspeaking quite some 
time, and it works very well. Takes some training but after a few 
horus it is really good. http://www.scansoft.com

I use it when writing reports etc. Just work one day at home and 
a report is finished. What's funny is that I get less remrk on my 
reports/plans when dictated than when written. That's reason enough 
to use it :-)

With regards to keyboards that don't have a numeric pad (or indeed 
function keys), I'm using a "Happy Hacking Lite 2"; a bit pricey 
though but the preferred keyboard of many Linux enthusiasts. Check 
out http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/haphackeylit1.htmlfor 
a picture.

efish & yeksoon - numberpad not a problem for left handers. Perhaps 
a right-handed keyboard should be made ;-)

numeric pad is used a lot in accounts. Recently I saw a keyboard 
where the number pad was separate from the main keyboard (wireless 
too!) A good solution.

& once it is separated.. it may as well have a calculator display 
too, so it can function with or without the pc.

About keyboard centeredness:

I think it is a problem, I usually position my keyboard in a way 
that the typing space is centerd for me, and the numeric keypad sticks 
out to the right.

Of course then you have trouble reaching for the mouse. So now I 
use the mouse lefthanded ...

Sorry Allen, I overlooked that you had written something nearly to 
the same effect.

Need sunshades when Ingo comes here!

My eyes are bleeding.

I had a perfectly good colour setting until I had to move to rebol3 
world ...

and altme chokes on me, whenever I try to save settings

but it seems

that the setting is saved anyways ...

better now?

yes ... much better.

but not a shade on me.

Ingo, you could drive Graham crazy by copying his color :)

and changing your name to Graham, too..

Two days ago, when on business trip to Prague, I bought book from 
Eric Meyer, as it looked interesting. Dunno if you know the autor 
- http://www.ericmeyeroncss.com/about-book.html

Yesterday I talked to one web designer, let's say he is not too much 
experienced - he is good in graphics, but not so good at understanding 
all webdesign/browser related tricks. However - he told what I am 
thinking for some time already and Chris will not eventually agree 
- css is fine, but why do all .css based pages look the same?

And he is correct - by first looking at css based page, you can rather 
quickly distinguis it - it is rather boxy, effects are the similar 
....

I am going to read the book and see if I can change my mind, but 
imo there is something wrong with technology, if it can't be indistinguishable 
from others. Simply put - current css based look is kind of modern 
trend, but what happens once it wears itself out?

Other thing is - it is one or more layers (if more media is used) 
upon html, so it may not be so easy for average web designers to 
think about ...

css may well try to isolate presentation layer, but imo it fails. 
You have box aproach, but let's relate it to VID area - the text 
in css terms will hide, if it is longer than the visible area, but 
- where is scroll-bar? Correct me if I am wrong, but you simply need 
'if and other good functions to program it exactly the way you want 
...

The pity imo is, that java-script was found bad aproach ... it is 
programming language and allows for much more things than css ...

If there's a boxy-limitation, it isn't in CSS.  HTML currently only 
supports rectangular boxes.
Spend a bit of time at
http://www.csszengarden.com/
to see how different CSS can be with the HTML.


Not to say that CSS doesn't have limitations -- lack of variables 
and calculations is an obvious one.

yes, and above site is typical css look. I am not sure the letters, 
spacing etc. are typographically correct. The same goes for most 
css designs I saw ...

but overal it provides us with new possibilities - I need to read 
more about it.  I never properly worked with tools like MS FrontPage, 
DreamWeaver, except their old incarnations :-), so I wonder how do 
those tools support css based design?

besides that, css design is sometimes slow, or it is because e.g. 
Mozilla renders it slowly?

csszengarden.com is cool ...

where can I learn about inheritance and other things? I mean - syntax 
- I looked and read various articles explaining directives, but noone 
was able to tell me about things like "body > div#preamble,#supportingText"

# means id . means class, but what function does have > or ,?

h1,h2,h3 {color:red} is simply a shorthad to avoid writing
h1 {color:red}  h2 {color: red}  h3 {color:red}

p b {color blue} means a <b> as *any* descendant of a p is blue 

p>b {color:blue} means a b that is an immediate descendant of a p 
is blue [so doesn't apply to <p><ul><li><b>not blue</b></li></ul></p> 

The > notation is CSS2 only -- but that is widely supported these 
days.
There is also + but that is not widely used.


Anything by Eric Meyer is a good place to start for leaning CSS. 
My copy of the O'Reilly guide is battered from constant use.

thanks ...

Is there anything beyond css 2.1? I have heard about 3.0, but book 
does not cover it ...

does IE 5.0 support 2.0 css? Because - I would not orientiate webdesign 
to NS 4.x or IE 4.x anymore - ppl should adapt, and if IE 4.x runs 
on such machine (Win95), so can Opera or Firefox ...

One question though. Both class and id are used mostly to describe 
layout. I mean - Gabriele's temple uses class and id to identify 
what/how data should be filled in, but it may not be in correspondence 
with design. I should note, that Temple design is how I imagine templating 
system should work. When you work in trio-mode - user (entering data 
into app), programmer and designer (which can't program), most template 
systems are not acceptable, as they break the ability to see the 
design work result, unless loaded into production environment, and 
that is not acceptable in my situation ...

CSS3 is on the way -- but very little supports it.  Firefox has some 
CSS3 goodies supported.

More compatibility info than you might ned here:
http://www.corecss.com/properties/full-chart.php

Not sure I understand the issue with class / id and templates.  Can 
you say more?