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[Syllable] The free desktop and server operating system family

Evgeniy Philippov
That's re: network stack
I think I will now work with stable ones
If you have only one Syllable system, it's best to use the stable 
0.6.6 release
However, if you can have multiple installations, development work 
is best done on the development build. The kernel headers have changed 
a lot, which affects the source code of system modules
The development build lacks some parts, though. Most notably cURL, 
so that the Webster browser doesn't work
If you want to install a development build, you may want to wait 
a week. I intend to have a new one for the Syllable Conference coming 
We don't have a Syllable architecture diagram. It would be nice to 
have one, but unfortunately, I have many other priorities. However, 
much BeOS documentation applies to Syllable, especially the overall 
architecture. Haiku keeps a lot of such documentation, such as the 
Evgeniy Philippov
I prefer to work with stable version first, to not encounter clashes 
with newborn bugs. If I get to anything working, I would like to 
merge it with the development version. So I will not currently install 
a development version. I have one computer with four hard drives 
and multiple partitions, one QEMU Syllable installation, and one 
native HDD Syllable installation.
newborn bugs --- i.e. those bugs caused by other developers.
Evgeniy Philippov
I've tested Haiku. 1) It does not have pppoe out of the box, and 
afair on its forums there is an unfulfilled request for pppoe. 2) 
Haiku uses VESA mode on my machine, supports more modes than Syllable, 
and is MUCH MUCH faster re: windows dragging with mouse than Syllable. 
Haiku reports: VESA version = 3.0, capabilities 1. Haiku allows for 
1280x1024x32 mode while Syllable only allows 1280x800 mode and shows 
a black screen in 1280x1024 mode.
Haiku is fast in VESA mode, Syllable is extemely slow re: windows 
dragging with mouse in vesa mode.
evgeniy, have you looked to minix3 too?
Evgeniy Philippov
not yet. at my plans there's plan9 and inferno, too
looked at inferno OS. All is bytecode-compiled, therefore rubbish.
Plan9 is interesting.
I think Plan9 is now forked into Front9.
Evgeniy Philippov
Minix3. wikipedia: "The main uses of the operating system are envisaged 
to be embedded systems and education, such as universities or the 
OLPC XO-1 laptop.[3]" --- not very intreresting goals for me.
plan9front is the name, sorry
Evgeniy Philippov
My preference are fast FOSS desktop OSes.
RTOS are also interesing for the abovementioned intent but currently 
are way above my head.
microkernel architecture and selfhealing. perhaps the real hurd? 
Evgeniy Philippov
self-healing is one important property to study; yes.
but microkernels are unavoidable. everything will have them with 
Processors will evolve to provide a fast zero-copy read-only safe 
access to kernel's memory for usermode processes.
Yes, Haiku's VESA driver is known to be fast. It could be interesting 
to port it to Syllable
Evgeniy Philippov
BTW What areas are strong in Syllable over Haiku and in Haike over 
They're quite alike and their development state is also quite alike. 
I can't really list all the details, as I only test Haiku once every 
few years or so, when they make a new alpha release
What I consider the biggest differentiator is that I have been pushing 
Syllable to use REBOL like languages for many years. Red programs 
can run on it, Boron is included, soon REBOL 3 (now on the live CD) 
and the packager is written in ORCA
And of course, I created Syllable Server, an extra Linux companion 
that Haiku doesn't have
And Kaj, now honestly you can tell me (decide for yourself, as this 
group is web public), why some ppl (or it's actually just one person) 
blames you from demotivating others? I always wonder, how such a 
thing as REBOL can make core developers to leave? What do you think 
about the topic? (not neccessary belonging into vent)
I expect Vanders and eventually others leaving projects, just because 
they had different priorities in life?
As for Syllable vs Haiku - I am not sure those can be compared, community 
wise. Feature wise maybe, but I expect Haiku community being vital,no? 
On the other hand, as for all the alternative OS developmens - what 
is their target? Just a hobby? With tonnes of mobile devices out 
there, is there any chance they can find their commercial niche?
That's a very long story. I can't speak for the motivation of the 
Haiku developers, and I can't predict the future of Syllable, so 
I won't try
As to how trolls are born, as you suspect, people left the project 
for different priorities, and for many different reasons
People leave volunteer projects all the time, and it's very easy 
for a troll to make it seem like it has something to do with the 
people remaining. Suffice it to say that this is motivated by their 
own feelings of inferiority, and far beside the truth
I'm releasing a new Syllable Desktop development build tomorrow. 
Here's a torrent download:
Here's the development files pack, needed for compiling software:
REBOL 3 is now in there, as on the live CD, including my cURL binding. 
I upgraded Boron to the latest version. ORCA is also still in there, 
for the Syllable package manager. I also added Fossil and many other 
The Red/System compiler is written in REBOL 2 which I don't think 
runs on Syllable desktop. Some work would probably needed even if 
REBOL 2 is there.
Yes, there's no R2, but if there were, Red/System would work. It 
will be included in the next Syllable Server
If Red/System takes a long time to be rewritten in Red, it might 
be an option to get it to run on R3, so it would run on Syllable 
Is that particularly difficult?
ie. are the differences between R2 and R3 that great ?
Since Red/System has its own struct! library for R2/Core, I think 
it should be doable to port it to R3, which also lacks struct! (it's 
there, but somehow unimplemented)
Not sure I want to spend time on it, because Red is next in the planning. 
But if you're looking to help... :-)
The announcement is now here: