World: r3wp

Usability issue: When one changes the password in AltMe, shouldn't 
the new password be offered by default upon the next running of the 
program?  1.0.1 seems to offer the "old" password first.  I suspect 
that many users would be "less confused" if the new password were 
offered without having to be re-entered.

Is there a sticky thread feature being worked on for Altme?  Would 
br really good for new group explanations etc.

Also - is there consideration being given to introducing a threading 
model for messages in altme?

I've helped a couple of organizations evaluate messaging/groupware 
in the last couple of months.

In neither case did Altme make it to the shortlist.

Why? Same reason in both cases: zero tolerance for applications that 
lose data.


(If you are on dial-up or in any way have a slightly flakey connection, 
then this can happen: you type a message; you press enter; Altme 
notices the connection has gone bad; Altme automatically reconnects; 
Altme throws your message away: no warning, just thrown away).

which are the ones that make it..? and why?

Boring things like Microsoft Exchange. They are well known, and work 
-- or at least, the bugs get fixed, eventually.

Exchange Server has no decent backup of messages, and files.  I attended 
M$ classes  to be sure what they were up to nowadays, and what they 
presented was pathetic.  No organization that wants to preserve their 
information should use that system.

IOS works perfect on low bandwidth connections.  I have used and 
depended on it even on 2G wireless, which is effectively 9600 BAUD.

Until the recent REBOL.net crashes I assumed the IOS servers I was 
using had proper backup. I learned otherwise [If we want to continue 
this, we could swap to an IOS group]

Every IT group I have visited has had nothing but trouble with Exchange 
Server...to make the point that it ain't ready for prime time.

Don't blame me - it wasn't my choice :-)
I just helped with suggesting some alternatives.

I agree AltME could use a better backup plan for the worlds.

ah, well, I am always here to help with converting IT braindead lackeys 
if you run into any more.

That group will likely get tired of Exchange over time, so an after-sell 
is always possible.

real tired....since they need to deal with worms, virus, spam, patches 
and more patches

Thanks. i try my best, but Altme and IOS are minority products, so 
they've got to be better than good to get to a shortlist..
Altme has at least three ways of losing data.

And having to rename the world every time there is a server crash 
doesn't make this group a useful reference site.

I do think this is a golden opportunity area, care-free backups, 
and I have some solutions in the works

Is altME/Pro coming ?

We're now on REBOL3 world.....Two crashes of REBOL.net, each need 
to create a new world and abandon the old one.
Not a great advert for the x-internet.
 What needs to happen to ensure we never need a REBOL4 world?

The solar system has even 9 planets :)

But I can live all my lfe on just one.

Shouldn't need rocket science just to recover from a cashed server 
:-)

::-)

Rebol2 was created cause Carl take the oportunity to flush all messages 
and start with an "empty" word. He changed the name just to allow 
us using old "Rebol" world off-line for old message.

Rebol3 is another case as there was a filesystem crash so the altme 
Rebol2 files were broken/lost !

If you have a FS crash, Exchange will go down too !!

there's only one solution, distributing the data. once your data 
is on a dozen nodes, the probability of ALL of them breaking up becomes 
quite small. :)

Altme's data was/is distributed.
But there's no mechanism for rebuilding from that
So more scattered than distributed.

DideC has the right idea with the Rebol# Worlds.  There was nothing 
stopping us from using the old worlds.  I have seen a couple of times 
now how nice AltME's system is in restoring a user's system that 
has crashed, simple reinstall AltMe and all data is resent - trouble 
for a big world or a dial-up modem.

If AltME allowed you to choose a date to start the restore from, 
and allow the search feature to retrieve previously unretrieved messages 
- it would be a very nice system.

You mean if Carl had reinstalled a 6-week old backup of  the master 
REBOL2 world, it could have recync'ed itself  by finding later messages 
from the rest of us?

(I'm guessing six weeks since the last viable backup, as that was 
the date for one of the IOS restores).

Yeah, xactly what I meant  ;)

That would be excellent!!  Wonder why Carl couldn't do it?

and if someone had altered their local copy?

would those changes sync back up again?

Brock, that would not work.

Sunanda: it's not distributed, because data can only go from the 
server to the clients. as soon as the server is dead, everything 
is dead.

distributed means that all nodes are equal. and with the right measures, 
a few nodes failing are not enough to cause a data loss.

I think the reason that Carl created Rebol2 & Rebol3 is that if he 
had restored the original Rebol & Rebol2 all private messages would 
have been lost.


It would seem that AltME' s replication strategy isn't quite there 
yet.

Gabriele -- I think I have a more relaxed definition of distributed.

it should have been possible to recreate all the public stuff (as 
Brock says) by reclaiming more recent messags from some of the more 
trsuted clients.

Private messages would be a little harder -- but stil not impossible 
with the right recovery code.

**ALL** the data still existed somewhere. Altme failed to re-collect 
it.

The present set up seems totally fragile.  Dependant on a single, 
central server. That's so 20th Century :-)

its a bussines model

Another answer is use Raid Drives, and back up once in a while (daily).

how do I make a new group again ?

two peeps on top left

That's one layer of security Reichart.

But (given that failed for whatever reason -- human laziness in doing 
backups;  tsunami; all kit stolen in break-in; whatever), what's 
the *next* layer?

Secure systems need more than one layer -- as we've discovered with 
REBOL-->REBOL2-->REBOL3.

*All* the data still existed, distributed amond the many users. But 
we threw it away and started a new world.

It's not a a good case study to write up for prospective Altme users.

thanks Graham

I agree, Sunanda. I'm backing up my data now. :)

(my machine will probably crash now)

no, once you back up, it doesn't crash anymore

that's *once* you back up... just started... :)

Reichart: see my comment at top of this group regarding a separate 
AltME usability issue.