World: r4wp

Git was not designed for humans, AFAICT. It was designed to let loose, 
informal teams manage huge open source projects. Now it has become 
the default hammer, and every software project a nail. I don't mean 
git is bad in any way, and it is successful for a reason. It has 
become friendly enough that a lot of people can use it, but I still 
see notes about how most people don't know how to use it effectively. 


I imagine you could build a great, human-friendly wrapper over git, 
providing 90% of the power with 10% of the effort. It would take 
a git expert and a good designer, but maybe not too much time.

My hope is that people who want a specific platform, and have experience 
on it, would port it because that's what they need. Otherwise we're 
going to overload Doc. :-)

Gregg - the ONLY thing which is really needed, is to add Download 
section to the Red website, pointing to the ZIP button of the Github 
website. That's for those who are not familiar with Git, or to whom 
the Git creates a headache to use. So - is adding one URL to a website 
so much of a challenge?

Pekr: Agreed...that was my initial suggestion.  My further suggestion 
is to have instructions right after those links stating how to get 
started with Red/System and also Red.  A simple step-by-step for 
beginners.

Bo - some simple step-by step is in ititial distro Doc. Might be 
copied on such a page ... at least hello world could be done that 
way :-)

See here - https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/blob/master/README.md
.... good enough for a starter, imo ...

True, but it takes too much searching to find.  red-lang.org is the 
place I would expect to go to download the language, and it would 
be super nice if the instructions were right there as well.  If that 
doesn't work, the second best would be a link to the instructions.

that for normal user, in order to just give some tool a try, such 
user should use systems like Fossil or Git?


That's precisely my point, it's not ready yet for "normal users". 
That's what I mean with not ready for prime time.


I really don't  want to have to maintain two copies of the same instruction 
page on both red-lang.org and github site, just because of people 
passing by and not curious enough to click on the very visible "Fork 
me on github" red banner.

I think I will add a big "Language Under Construction" yellow banner 
on top the red-lang.org site, like in the web 1.0 era. ;-)

Pekr: the right link for the step-by-step instruction is https://github.com/dockimbel/Red/


That's Red home page on Github, the README.md is automatically rendered 
on that page....one-click away from the  main site.

Doc - you still don't seem to understand. Are you so deep in an a 
language design, so that you can't understand lamers like myself? 
:-)

I think, that there is many potential supporters out there, who would 
welcome - You can download very experimental version of Red and Red/System 
to test here ....

But it's your project, do as you consider it being important or not 
:-) I found my way thru, to mess with Github, others might wait ...

Pekr: trust me I know what I'm doing. But as it will take me less 
time to add that Download button than keeping arguing with you about 
that, I will add it. :-)

Changes done on red-lang.org. Download page added.

thanks

Doc, what are you looking for currently in RED movement? - testers... 
developers, debuggers, etc?

I obviously, work as a Windows debugger using most of the core Windows 
Debugging tools and Systems Internals so I could contribute along 
those lines until I get knowledge of RED.

I could have used you in the past week, but I just fixed cURL networking 
on Windows, after setting up a Windows installation for the first 
time in almost a decade

:-)

We still have a problem playing sound with SDL on Windows, so if 
you could do something there, that would be great

Well good thing is that I have access to good size lab at work.

Can you reproduce the problem?

Yes, it produces an error on XP, but on 7, you see it play in the 
mixer without producing any sound

Even odder is that it just works on WINE

If I can reproduce it then we should have no problem fixing it.

What is SDL?

The error on XP seems to be related to DirectSound. Perhaps it needs 
a newer DirectX or a driver, but I'd think SDL would drop down to 
a more primitive sound system

http://www.libsdl.org

The test binaries are here:

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-test/dir?ci=tip

It's best to use the MSDOS folder. The Windows folder is less complete 
and compiled as GUI apps, so no command line output

The SDL audio program is MSDOS\RedSystem\play-SDL-wav.exe. There's 
a test file sample.wav

Ok, lot of stuff there. So let me explain how I typically operate 
to make this the easiest way for me to help.  I need ONLY the relevant 
files to install, complete with same instrucitons for installation 
that produced the error.  I need to know specific versions as well. 
 Once I know I can re-create the problem, then I need sources (at 
least any programming sources you have) and any symbol files you 
may have or can generate (pdb) files preferred.

If you wait half an hour, I'll have new binaries

No problem Kaj.

No installation is needed, but Red doesn't generate extra symbol 
files

Paul: all of them. :-)

I don't have any older XP in the house so I may have to do it in 
the lab at work or install it via as a VM and see if it reproduces.

No problem Doc.

The source is here:

As Kaj said, we do have somtimes odd issues on Windows with some 
third-party libs.

http://red.esperconsultancy.nl/Red-SDL/dir?ci=tip

Yeah, I spend the days debugging control systems and lots of third 
party stuff.

I do my share too from time to time using IDA Pro. ;-)

Yeah, I am familiar  with IDA Pro, but we use WinDBG mostly.

I'm using it also sometimes, but IDA is really great.

Yeah I hear good stuff about it.

We do on premises debugging a lot in front of customers so we have 
to use WinDBG.  Plus some of the software engineers I work with know 
the tool pretty well.  I work with a lot of peole from Sybase, Siemens, 
Rockwell, GE

I franckly sometimes wouldn't mind some more arms for debugging native 
stuff as it can be quickly time-consuming.