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World: r4wp

[#Red] Red language group

Kaj
15-Sep-2012
[1768x2]
Note that you need to get the system page size with sysconf():
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Memory_002dmapped-I_002fO.html
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1770x3]
Ok, got Red working fine on OS X too.
Syscalls: given how much a programming language has to call OS services, 
I don't see why we shouldn't try to avoid an unnecessary layer. But 
I'm pragmatic, if we get more troubles than benefits, we'll adopt 
a more classical approach.
Also, syscalls usage gives you a smaller executable (smaller import 
section).
Kaj
15-Sep-2012
[1773]
You won't want to use syscalls for memory management on Syllable 
Desktop, because they're very different. So you'll have to implement 
the POSIX C library wrapper for Syllable Desktop, anyway
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1774x2]
sysconf:I guess it's the right time to add it.
We already use some C calls, so no problem for adding Syllable specific 
code for that.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1776x2]
NickA - it's impossible to setup a USA bank account without being 
there in person to do so.  I've tried ... you have to present your 
credentials in person.
Any Paypal limitations are set by the EU ?  I don't have an issue 
with Paypal here.
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1778]
Yes, it's a EU limitation.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1779]
Are protocols going to be like R2 or R3 ?
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1780]
Probably more like what they were intended to be in R3. (Does R3 
have anything besides HTTP support?)
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1781x2]
No, I think Kaj produced a Curl binding for https
I did write a ftp, smtp and hylafax protocol for R3
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1783]
Red should have a more "modern" set of schemes than the one provided 
by R2, though.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1784x5]
And imap, and a JDBC bridge
But they were just first passes waiting for Carl to have a look and 
give advice, which never came, so they never went past that stage
So, I hope the underlying support is there to rewrite these protocols 
easily!
This is the ftp scheme Andreas and I did https://github.com/gchiu/Rebol3/blob/master/protocols/prot-ftp.r
So, yes, there are a few of us waiting to contribute when Red reaches 
that point for us
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1789]
I will provide the basic ones for Red: TCP, UDP, DNS, HTTP(S), SSL, 
SSH/SFTP, SMTP. Also, I would like to have a few more for remote 
or local storage builtin: Dropbox, MySQL, Postgresql. 


You are welcome to contribute other ones to that list (IMAP, SMTP, 
MongoDB, CouchDB would be nice additions).
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1790]
What are your plans for a code repository?
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1791]
I will probably host a server that will provide packaged and selected 
libraries for Red (with builtin support in Red for getting them). 
For sharing code, my plan was to built some support for that right 
into the IDE.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1792x2]
I was looking at Amazon's glacier ( ultracheap S3 storage ) but that 
requires SHA256
( no need for dropbox if we can have that :) )
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1794]
Wasn't Amazon's glacier for archiving data you don't need everyday?
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1795x4]
Yea
And that's what I use dropbox for ...
as background backup
Not for syncing across multiple PCs
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1799]
I use it mainly as way to share data between all my computers and 
my mobile devices.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1800]
I'd like to see SIP and secure SIP eventually, and the ability to 
use video streaming :)
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1801]
Imagination is your only limit. ;-)
Pekr
15-Sep-2012
[1802]
Doc - what are your plan re Uniserve? Will basic engine be present 
directly in Red, or a separate product?
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1803]
Glacier allows files to be retrieved over a few hours
Gregg
15-Sep-2012
[1804]
I've started some convesations here about helping fund Red, but no 
commitments yet.
Pekr
15-Sep-2012
[1805]
Wasn't it NickA? I think that so far, donations come from the community 
members, in an insufficient amount. Are you talking about more solid 
funding? So far only NickA expressed his will to eventaully fund 
Red ...
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1806]
Uniserve: we'll see how it fits in the Red I/O model (not written 
in stone yet), we'll probably use a newer approach with sequential 
code instead of having to write callbacks.
Pekr
15-Sep-2012
[1807]
and concurrency? Kind of what Carl have planned? Don't remember where 
he briefly described it, but we once pushed him to say few words 
about it on Altme? Or maybe you plan on more lightweight solution, 
like green threading?
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1808x2]
So far, the plan was to use Actor abstraction, but I might decide 
to use a more lightweight approach (something like goroutines). The 
basic idea for the low layer is to have cheap concurrent threads 
of execution that are dispatched over a limited number of OS threads. 
On the upper layer, they might appear as task! or actor! values, 
that you could create in various ways (do/task, read/write on I/O, 
...).
I also have a few ideas about specializing CPU cores in order to 
avoid costly context switching, but I need to test that on paper 
first.
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1810]
It would be nice if we had something like apt-get to fetch and update 
both yours and 3rd party software
DocKimbel
15-Sep-2012
[1811x2]
We'll probably have something like an "import" function that would 
work locally and remotely from an organized online repo.
Gregg: thanks for that. I'm all ears if someone has a solid proposition 
for that. I'm even ready to relocate myself in a foreign country, 
if that can help. :-)
GrahamC
15-Sep-2012
[1813]
I've sent money to europe by bank wire, and it's very expensive. 
 Best if you can setup a US bank account when you're next visiting 
the USA ( if that is possible for non residents ), or an E*trade 
account.
Kaj
15-Sep-2012
[1814]
hello is still out of memory on Syllable Server, at a slightly changed 
address
Andreas
15-Sep-2012
[1815]
Please try again, pushed a fix a few seconds ago.
Kaj
15-Sep-2012
[1816]
42!
Andreas
15-Sep-2012
[1817]
Welcome to the club :)