World: r3wp
[Red] Red language group
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Kaj 5-Jan-2012 [4256] | I hardly mentioned REBOL anymore, either, but it's necessary to introduce Red |
Gerard 5-Jan-2012 [4257] | Finally I will be able to help a bit with a donation ... it's done! Will do better next time - New year was rough in terms of personal expenses - Keep up the good work everybody. For tring things a bit I recently ordered a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 inches android tablet - I will receive it shortly and will try to test somewthing with it ... Don't know what for now but looking for something. For now I'm learning iOS programming in the mean time using Objective-C which I also have to learn ... A lot of new stuff going on. |
Kaj 5-Jan-2012 [4258x2] | Maniacs make the system. Square parenthesis instead of curly they are clearly not attract many new people. |
That's the gist of the Russian comments | |
Chris 5-Jan-2012 [4260] | *Sigh* |
Kaj 5-Jan-2012 [4261] | Yeah... |
Izkata 5-Jan-2012 [4262] | Comment back that the same could be said of Python's no-bracket syntax ;) |
Kaj 5-Jan-2012 [4263x6] | I've had the same argument with someone for several years now, only about round parentheses... |
The people who are supposed to be wise don't get it, either: | |
By the way, not like any readable Haskell. | |
>>----- Quote ---->> Lisp with square parenthesis? <<----- Quote ---- << Yes, another Lisp for the poor" " | |
And one light: | |
Cheers, been waiting for this release | |
Henrik 6-Jan-2012 [4269x3] | well, if people are judging a language on that, then it's impossible to discuss it on a higher level. |
I wonder now, what people generally thought of C, when it came out. Of course things were slightly different back then. | |
2 more watchers of the github repository. | |
Dockimbel 6-Jan-2012 [4272] | My floating point support todo-list for Red/System: http://groups.google.com/group/red-lang/browse_thread/thread/5fe1e6bde8576d51?hl=en |
Pekr 6-Jan-2012 [4273x3] | what is that channel? If a new one, a forum, please add it to the Community section on red-lang.org? |
btw - did not Ladislav do something with floating and rounding C level support for R3? Maybe you could consult with him .... | |
btw - I would not hesitate to post that info as a normal blog article on a red-lang.org, or some ppl might miss it? | |
Dockimbel 6-Jan-2012 [4276x3] | what is that channel? Just the Red's mailing-list, nothing new there. |
Ruby's author Matz (Yukihiro Matsumoto) tweeting about Red: http://t.co/rUZtxSOE | |
Well, the floating point support is just planned for now, not even a work in progress, I'll blog about it when it will be more tangible. | |
Janko 6-Jan-2012 [4279x2] | Wow Doc , EPIC .. |
I predict rebol-like will be going mainstream in 2 years :) | |
Dockimbel 6-Jan-2012 [4281] | If we do things right, it is not impossible. ;-) |
Janko 6-Jan-2012 [4282x3] | my webapps (latest one is wip timetracking) code is getting cleaner and shows more benefits with every itteration. And all in direction only rebol-like langs (not even lisps) can provide AFAIK. And ages away from classical / python / ruby code. |
(and I am not even that good at reabol .. some code that I saw at powermezz was also nothing I've seen before) | |
like nothing | |
Pekr 7-Jan-2012 [4285] | Just a question towards the RED possible performance. Are all RED natives going to be implemented in Red/System? There might be possible cases, where RED is going to be slower than REBOL, no? E.g. SORT - in REBOL, it goes directly to the C level. If RED compiles to RED/System, and SORT is going to be written in RED/System, which will be surely slower than C, then there will be cases, when RED is slower than REBOL? Well, we might as well implement SORT or math intensive stuff in C directly, as kind of cross-platform lib, and pass it over, but then such a library would have to be compiled for all platforms ... |
Dockimbel 7-Jan-2012 [4286x2] | Once we'll work on optimizing Red, we'll use the fastest routines available for critical code parts. For SORT, I'm not sure it will be slower, but if it's the case, we'll use the C version. |
I mean we'll use qsort() if faster than the equivalent in Red/System. Building a runtime lib in C for Red is not necessary, that would defeat one of the purpose of Red/System. | |
Henrik 7-Jan-2012 [4288] | if I were to use SOURCE on a native! in Red, would it show the actual source? |
Pekr 7-Jan-2012 [4289x2] | Watching your floating point support, another question - is it possible (later) for Red/System to evelve into general C wrapper? I mean - that I would not need to use C, but Red/System, maybe plus inlined C/ASM, having math operations including floats? But maybe that's not Red/System intended purpose even in the long run? |
As I understand it, the priority is to support such features in Red/System recently, to allow 1) wrapping of external libraries 2) provide enough of ground for RED itself to be compiled into ... | |
Kaj 7-Jan-2012 [4291x2] | Red/System has supported that from the start |
The point of developing an own low level language with an own compiler is to not need C and a C compiler. Which is something we can use very well in Syllable, for example | |
Andreas 7-Jan-2012 [4293x2] | RED/System, which will be surely slower than C. There's no reason for that to be necessarily the case. Red/System is a compiled, low-level language; at the very same level as C. |
And as Kaj already said as well, Red/System is actually not only to "evolve into general C wrapper?", it is meant to actually replace C (for some purposes). Red/System aims to interface nicely with native libraries (which are, more often than not, created by using C). | |
BrianH 7-Jan-2012 [4295x2] | The only reason that Red/System would be slower than C would be if the C optimizer were better than the Red/System optimizer. The languages have similar semantic models and are implemented similarly - they are in the same class, more or less. |
I can only hope that Red's SORT will be more correct than the one in R3, which has known bugs :( | |
Steeve 7-Jan-2012 [4297x2] | It will be slower in average especialy for looping intensive computations like the sorting algorithms. I don't think the Red compiler can remain simple and beat a full featured optimizing c compiler. |
The simple current compiler technique used by Red (variable pushed/poped on the stack ) is already easly beaten by any c compiler. | |
Andreas 7-Jan-2012 [4299] | Any C compiler with a register allocator, that is :) |
Steeve 7-Jan-2012 [4300] | obviously ;-) |
Andreas 7-Jan-2012 [4301x2] | Yes, there are C compilers that don't care :) |
TCC for example, if I'm not mistaken. | |
Steeve 7-Jan-2012 [4303] | TCC is for science not for business :) |
Andreas 7-Jan-2012 [4304] | Don't say that :) TCC has many obscure uses :) |
Dockimbel 7-Jan-2012 [4305] | Steeve: certainly, but as you might have noticed, Red/System current implementation is a bootstrap for the Red/System future version written in Red. So all the current Red/System code written in REBOL, will be trashed once Red will be mature enough. Adding heavy optimizations at this point would be just a waste of time and energy that would serve no purpose. |
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