World: r3wp

Think of the layout dialect as HTML with no formatting, and all of 
the formatting in the CSS. Does that make sense?

I want to be able to write: button 50x50

Cyphre - you misinterpret me a bit - on one hand, yes, I think those 
are usefull to have for occassional GUI hackers, for the fun factor. 
If user is an idiot, and wants to define each button differently, 
so be it - there is analogy with inline CSS style. But if we allow 
it, the behaviour should deliver it ...

this sets init-size without touching min/max-size.

yes, I meant now you can write: button 50x50 but Pekr doesn't like 
it won't deliver the 50x50 size...I don't care here.

Why doesn't it deliver the 50x50 size if the init-size is set to 
the value?

In HTML you can also specify values that are not reflected in the 
resulting page so what?

Robert - the problem was with the demo - I ported button, specifying 
50x50, but it gets not used, as the max size is 24 on Y axis. So 
I was confused, and though that something does not work. The result 
is in agreement with how the system is implemented, but anyway - 
we will get "huh, what?" and ppl being confused, if we don't adress 
it somehow ...

Why doesn't it deliver the 50x50 size
 because the button is limited by min/max-size values.

Should that 50x50 be cut down to 50x24 then, Robert, or should max-size 
be changed to 230x50?

And if min-size: 1x1 and max-size: 21177172727x217722172727

Max size changed. Or warning printed to the console :-)

I don't see a problem.

if min-size: 1x1 and max-size: 21177172727x217722172727

 ....then your button will have tendency to resize to monstruous sizes 
 in the layout.

I agree with Robert - style defines init-size, max-size, min-size. 
Just predefine max size to cover at least fullHD resolution, and 
be it :-) The button will still be properly sized by init-size, if 
user does not override it?

the style-writer of button needs to specify min & max values as they 
are meant: absolut minimum this style will work. IMO for a button 
with 1 clikc areas it is 1 pixel.

I thought there is a strategy to the sizing, and that styles somehow 
have some sizing tendencies ... I remember some spacers, etc., but 
dunno how new resizing is implemented ...

Cyphre, yes, this is the default property of buttons: Resizes to 
the maximum you can imagine. If you don't like it: stop it by giving 
you own max-size

As said, the style writer can specify these. For a button the max-size 
is most likely less: 1980x1024 for example.

Robert - Cyphre probably meant that button will overtake your screen 
area :-) But it can't no? There are some rules, how particular styles 
divide the spacing/sizing during the resizing?

The goal must be that style writers select min / max-size values 
that will cover 99% of all use-cases. For the 1% rest, I can override 
it anyway.

I think the button have to have lmmited it's height as it is now. 
The 1% is exactly what Pekr is doing :)

How are multiple screens handled?

I agree with the heigth for buttons, maybe double heigth than default 
height.

Anything else is exotic and should be explicitly overriden by programmer.

There was also one proposal, to rename options/facets:


- the naming is reversed - in style, you use options for inline parameters, 
whereas in a layout, you use options to set facets


- I understand Carl and maybe others would not like to give up on 
facets being a name for properties/attributes, but ....


- I proposed to rename it, so that options in a layout = options 
in a style, and for inlined style definition we could use facets, 
or inlined name.

What do you think about it?

Kaj, perhaps this is the same misunderstanding as for host kit work. 
It seems that many times, when Carl or RM Asset offers a task to 
the community, the response is negative.

Yes, that's what I mean: it's unreasonable to expect this

And IMO this approach fits with Henrik's wish to restrict things 
(which would be through the default values) to save you time and 
hassles. If you override it, well do it, and take the whole responsibility 
on your own.

I still don't understad why is this soo big issue here. Simply if 
you don't like what you get with the current button just do:
stylize [my-button: button []]

view [
	my-button ...
]

Yes, no problem. But just to get a different init-size it's a bit 
overkill, or am I missing something?

Cyphre - now you replied to yourself - what is the difference to 
button vs my-button? The only one is, that what I wish is now covered 
by my-button. But what was the basic refusal to allow buttons being 
freely sized? Some MS Word like analogy of later on having to change 
each button separately in your app, if we allow user each button 
to be completly differently sized.

this is not because of different init size but because of different 
size limits.

It seems that buttons can be freely sized within their limits. So 
the question is what are the default limits and why?

Would it not be better to focus on flow and how a style will fit 
in a cell, rather than impose the size of the button on the button 
itself? We are used to assigning size to the button directly instead 
of posing restrictions on its surroundings, because that concept 
did not exist in VID.

Right, that is exactly what I was talking about.

Brian, correct. Pekr, either you as user will understand and agree 
the rules or you need to lear a bit more and become 'style tweaker'.

Kaj, well, Pekr took up the challenge to rebuild the GUI demo (to 
great effect as we can see), so I don't think it hurts to simply 
ask if there is interest in the community to perform certain tasks.

Biran, re multiple screens...there is no support for that in R3 yet.

Henrik - I can't see a great effect here yet :-)

OK. Darn.

Pekr, there is talk, you report bugs and there is response. That's 
the effect I wanted to see.

Yes, but I fear that some of my requirements, questions, questioning, 
is felt as controversial at least :-)

But generally you are right - I decided to start using the system, 
or there would be no response at all.

They are important to discuss and you will not get every wish granted, 
but it's only a matter of seeing the big picture of things.

Brian...I don't have multiple screens so I personally have no high 
priority in this. But this is open to anyone..things to do:

1. do a research of the multi-screen handling under different OSes 
(win, linux, mac)
2. define proper abstracted interface
3. implement specific code for each platform

Cyphre: I thought I am able to initialise the size in terms of min-max 
bounds? But all following buttons are of the same size?

view [button "1" button 180x23 "2" button 230x230 "3"]

So, instead of on an individual control basis (like old Delphi) sizing 
is done on a grid model (like new Delphi), the change coming about 
for the same reason Delphi changed that: Ease of development and 
maintainability?

Half the computers I use are connected to 2 screens: the main one 
and an HDTV. Ususally not the same resolution. And some of the connections 
are occasional rather than persistent.

grid model: Yes, that is a nice thing. But IMO can be done later 
anyway. Not sure we should add this complexity yet. Let's get the 
simple basics clear first.