World: r3wp

the reason I am working hard on the R3 OpenGL engine is that I want 
to be able to display hundreds of thousands of things in real-time, 
smoothly.

yeah hardware acceleration is the only suitable way for that

so this is just to program your dataflow engine?

people must understand that this effort is not just "for fun" I've 
been reading almost 4 hours a day on average on various topics so 
that the performance will be hard-core, at least the design will 
allow it to be sooner rather than after 15 rewrites.

maxim in a near futur the APU will lead and rebol should be able 
to adapt to that hardware change fast ... And benefit from it

I think in graphic application the overall look is very important 
 ...

i like the gem like display  of elixir

on you screen what puzzles me is that it seems to have 2 groups of 
gems in relation but without any relation or execution order/depency 
betwin those 2 groups...

i understand this pic can represent an ongoing work ;)

its to program a completely new OS design which was tought of 15 
years before terms like "the cloud" became buzzwords.  In this system, 
there is no concept of cloud as a difference in your day to day work 
and play.


in elixir, you are not on or in *a* cloud, the idea is that everything 
we relate to *is* a cloud.  from the button which you click on (which 
is part of the application's cloud) to the current definition of 
servers that process services.  in fact, in elixir, the button state 
of your application can become input data for ANY other node. be 
it in the app, or within a single integer variable sitting in a process 
queue on a server... its the same interface to link them than to 
create a new thread.  there are basically no differences.

yes, you can have several unrelated sets, just like you have unrelated 
apps or files on your current computer  :-)

ok and here i'm lost ;)

the line between data, process and structure is blurred into one 
and the same system.

yeah

that like the rebol.org in a potential 10 ... some step forward the 
rebol/desktop concept ... those idea of distributing or lets say 
shared code repository is just facinating ... so much more can be 
done in that scope

glass v2 already proves the interface can be a cloud of nodes... 
I just shipped my first 400kb glass based app to a client two hours 
ago.


it can scale to 200mb of nodes and data editing people softs' incredily 
lame SQLserver DB setup.

nice

although at some point it gets really slow because of the limits 
of R2... it just chugs along never *EVER* breaking about even though 
at some point I've got about 50000 nodes talking to each other.


actually, the only thing that does constantly break a part is everything 
which isn't representable as nodes... like events, and input data 
files which I must read and convert into nodes, which get connected 
directly to the interface.

anyhow... back to OpenGL in R3  ;-)

ok

i saw your first teapot picture any improvements since then ?

i will try to think this  more  i like the idea of  having a fast 
view uppon rebol script as a view boxed/noded in realation one to 
another. I like the idea of behing able to "enter" those box/nodes 
to adapt them enhance them or simply redefine them. I like the idea 
of sharing pre-sets box and having a synchronised / shared tool box 
.If i design a tool and make it available then in a short time that 
tool becomes part of the hudge collective tool box and then is shared 
to every one.

i like the idea of a splendid scenarised grphical overview ..

boxes aren't tools but they can become tools and tools can become 
boxes to be edited / modified

wrt teapot progress ...  in many ways its regressed  ;-)


The teapot was a test of how to integrate something into R3's view 
engine safely and without any side-effects.  hopefully some of that 
research will allow us to better hook into R3 with an eventual tiny 
expansion of the gob structure.


now I'm actually building the engine which interprets user data and 
sends that data to the integration I did earlier. 

though its pretty much empty right now.  I'm *just* about to add 
reading of a user built block of data which I convert to low-level 
C structs and then render in HW.

then can a recusiv process be the base of the tool creation/collection 
can then those basic bricks be assembled on more sofisticated tools 
 those sofisticated tools being then short cuts to create your own 
software

I'm also beginning to feel like a real C programmer... which is a 
welcome change...

pools become nodes.  so anything that can connect to a node can also 
connect to a pool (which means everything per the philosophy of elixir).

hahahaahaha  .... i hate to be forced to C program to do rebol i'm 
interrested in rebol the other languages juste bore me to the infinite 
point ...

yeah... but its nice to be able to count loops in millions rather 
than thousands  :-)

maxim the idea is that i don't want to do the box in the box in the 
box in the box  effect ... i want 2 kind of boxes tools and box mainly 
tools are scripted set of rebol function or rebol functions from 
teh rebol standard dictionary

to each of those tools there is a auto generated form that you will 
feel to set up your function arguments

and then you have the boxes with are "user function"  you put tools 
in them and you related them one to another to make them  cooperate

that's basically what i have in mind

this is known as a "process" in elixir... scripts which build up 
nodes and link them up in a specific way.


tools are processes which have a persisten interface (cli or graphical)

ok . It's interresting talk but it's been really late i need to go 
to bed ;)

have a good and smooth progression then maxim

in many ways elixir models the semantics of nature better than all 
this pseudo desktop and CS ideology.

yeah... there's still a long ahead of me... though I'm now running 
instead of crawling towards it.

long *road*

yeah but i'm a drunken idiot so most of it is too polished for my 
grasp ;)

now discussing undo/redo management. There is a small spec available 
here:

http://rebol.net/wiki/R3_GUI_Specs#Undo.2FRedo_Management

any input is welcome.

undo-redo must not be window based but application-wide.  it will 
be almost useless otherwise.

though it could have different undo/redo threads which are selected.

undo-threads, that was the thought, but perhaps coupling it to per 
window is wrong, if you have multi-window actions occuring.

forcing a 1:1 undo thread to window   relationship breaks up quickly 
when you consider that some windows operate on many threads and some 
threads will require many windows .

ok, then we would need a different method for coupling an undo context 
rather than in the face.

best is to have a simple block with named threads... and you force 
people to supply the thread name when using any of the undo/redo 
functionality.


also, undo/redo is best done when its not directly part of the gui. 
  


though its nice when the undo engine is able to speak to the gui 
directly.  the gui must not be the "brain" of the undo..

then perhaps this could be done:

undoer: make-undoer

view [panel [...bunch of fields...] options [undo: 'undoer]]

having written  a few, I recommend making it an external api which 
is fully "gui enabled"   this way, undo events can automatically 
call face accessors,  and you can put the undo stuff in the logic 
rather than the gui.   many times, the logic might generate a few 
undo, or none, based on things which the gui can't properly be aware.