World: r3wp

Its not alignments, its coordinate system.

With alignments the movie picture is glue to a border or centered 
in both direction.
With coordinate the picture itself would be mirrored in H or V !

Long discussion here ;) Ok, currently we are using origin(0x0) of 
coordinates from top-left corner. If I understand Maxim's request 
he wants to be able to easily change the orgin so it starts from 
bottom-left corner right?

Yes

for somethings it is easier to use top left and others bottom left 
as 0x0

Accepting that few other systems allow you to change the coordinate 
system on the fly

If this is the issue there are two solutions.

1. even now you can set the transformation matrix for example using 
MATRIX command(or other matrix related commands)  to change that

2. internally in the AGG code there is a way how to change the order 
in which the scanlines of the framebuffer are rendered in the Y-axis. 
In other words you can flip the Y axis.

the 1. is very flexible way how to setup the coordinate system ie. 
it allows you not only top-left or bottom-let but any other way you 
need.
using the 2. you can only control the Y axis nothing more

We we look at this from the performance POV:

-IIRC the transformation matrix is *always* used in the graphics 
pipeline so it doesn't matter if the matrix is set to 'top-letf' 
or 'bottom-left' or whatever else. There is no performance difference.

The only difference is that if you want to change the 'origin' you 
need to put one mroe command into the DRAW dialect block. I think 
you will agree that one more matrix command in the block can be assumed 
as almost no performance penalty.

so easy :)

same is also for the 2. the flipping of Y-axis doesn't affect the 
performance in any way no matter what mode are you using.

Also I should say that the 'flip-y' functionality is meant to be 
for the whole framebuffer = window. Se even if we expose such setting 
you won't be able to apply it per-gob, only per-window.

One more thing is that the flip-y mode is working as mirror so any 
text/images will be flipped upside down which is not usable. IMO 
any changes in that regard would slow down the scanlien rendering 
operations.

Well, even if we use the tranformation matrix the text and images 
will be upside down because that is the 'behaviour' of  Cartesian 
coordinates system.

So IMO in both case there needs to be done some additional changes 
so images/fill-patterns, vectorial text etc. will be rendered correctly. 
And I feel such changes fit more to some 'layout code functionality' 
than being part of low level rendering.

In other words it is much easier to write simple coordinate conversion 
function in REBOL for such needs.

The reason is simple: if we add that at low-level we'll slow-down 
the whole code even if you use the default coordinate system.

Just a quick thoughs so I'm open to any better ideas.

As for native code, instead of coordinate system, I would maybe more 
like to see some experiments as compound rasterizer, or other low-level 
optimisations (when time permits)

It would be good to see if there is any significant hit

Cyphre, I agree; it's already so easy to flip the y-axis in REBOL.

Anton - are you planning to create some styles for R3 GUI? IIRC in 
the past you created grid, etc., so maybe you might bring-in great 
additions ....

Graham, I still think this is really low priority thing. IMO this 
feature will be used in 1% in real usage so it is always easier to 
use the transformation or just write your own custom coordinate convesion 
function

Pekr: Ah... eventually... I have not recovered enough stamina to 
strike into this area yet.

still nothing for us to try yet?

needs more testing to see if everyone can compile the host kit.

problems?

no, just standard procedure

Ok, latest host-kit compiled. Rich-text now included.

Good news for all men

Cyphre and other :  LOL so it's all about monney ... your are a bunch 
of liars and pretenders ...  and you think how much it will take 
to get  R3 done ? Even if i give you ten thousand dollars i'm absolutly 
sure rebol will remain your last priority ...

and that's the truth and nothing but the truth and saying it's a 
monney main reason it's a cheap excuse. YOU WANT MY MONNEY MAKE A 
FOUNDATION PUT 100% OF REBOL CODE IN GPL AND THEN YOU WILL GET A 
CHANCE TO GET MY MONNE .In the current state no way ... plain and 
simple you are not anough apealing ....

Robert absolutly not and more i spend time here less i want to participate 
in anything .... that's how you motivate contributions...

shadwolf - maybe you should stop accussing guys, who try to do something 
for us. It is not about the money itself, it is about the manpower. 
We have to prioritise things, and money can make help here. As for 
me, I always fighted against - now you can code it yourself attitude 
- that simply sucks. But - in opposition to the past, we actually 
can let it happen - if you contract some developer. In the past, 
all sources were hidden from us ...

Pekr  WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THE PAST MONTH TO TRY TO GET ME CONVINCED 
TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROJECT ?


Any time I try get a serrious conversation here about  where are 
we going or how things are done i get cheap lame excuses and I'm 
tired of it ! 


I stated a long ago the current phylosophy in communautary contributions 
don't fit with me (it was in may 2005)  you can't sit on 2 chairs 
at same time and expect to be stable.


You can't say rebol is a commercial trade marked business  and don't 
pay  the contributors and give them credits for their contributions 
.

You can't say a part of it is commercial an other part is free that's 
ethically not right. 

That's my way to see it ...


Then i won't participate to a project where the all mighty god fater 
can come out of nowhere and trash my month of hard work in a blink 
of an eye without any justification.


I won't participate in a team with people that don't want to share 
knowledge.


I won't participate in a team where people can take in hostage the 
whole project to get  money for themselves. 


I won't participate in a project where i can't  do any proposal with 
being insulted...

Did I made myself clear ?

and that is the kind of  community YOU built the past 10 years and 
that why so many left it ... Face it and make the changes that needs 
to be done.

shadwolf -> Vent.

you can add :


I won't paticipate in a project where there is not global plan and 
only a short term view and a one shot tries stack of things.

shadwolf, please continue in ~Vent group.

anton that way you can keep your illusions and remain in dream land 
where everyone is happy gentle and smart ?

as stated you got me to the ~vent group to get me out of your sight 
and avoid the discussion... So predictable.

shadwolf -- this group is for <For discussion of the R3 GUI> (see 
first post).
You are posting about the whole of R3 and its development cycle.
This is not the appropriate group for that.

Please switch to a group that is on topic for that.....Or use one 
of the generic ones, such as ~vent as Anton has suggesfed.

sunanda if you send me read the first meassges here i will send you 
read the first messages i made with the questions i made and the 
repy I got from the intervenant that way the wanabe dictator you 
want to be will see that if actually we seems to be out of topic 
that's related to the way people treat my asks.


Sunanda  If i was speaking ot jesus I wouldn't be trearted that way 
but I would still be out of topic ...

for my actual of topic reply to you will i get banned sunanda ?

Too few people have ever been banned for there to be hard-and-fast 
rules.

Approximatelt.....Combining [off-topic] with [personal abuse] and 
[failure to engage in dialog] would be the main markers for someone 
heading for a ban.

so ban me you will prouve you can't stand a conversation and opose 
true arguments...

And it won't change the actual noone cares about rebol situation 
and less about rebol3 GUI...

rich text is out where can i see it ? 

Why no one comment it ? is it so awfull that noone wants to talk 
about it in fear of having the treatment shadwolf got ?

No one commented on it, because it is _not_ "out" yet.

robert said yesterday "Ok, latest host-kit compiled. Rich-text now 
included."....

I don't know guys you have a boring shadwolf  clamining rich text 
stuff you insult him you say he is nothing but a jerk a troll etc 
but anyway the week later you have it ready (proof that it was a 
point of interrest for you too ) then you don't say to shadwolf hey 
look at this maybe that will get you involved with us ? 


Naaaaaaaaah it's so much more fun to insult me and act like kids 
....

Please keep the ranting out of here, and stick to more approriate 
groups for that.

Regarding the only factual statement in the above: "compiled" != 
"released".

andreas ok so why announcing it's ready if it's not ?

No one announced that it is ready. Robert said it compiled; nothing 
more, nothing less.

why compiling things that don't work ? Ok so i should have understoud 
it more like rich-text widget is done now and it compiles well so 
on next release at that time you will be able to experience it. We 
are impatient to get your comments on this new module.