World: r3wp

This means that we won't be putting off the R3 beta until we reach 
feature parity with R2. In many ways we have already surpassed R2, 
but there will be some things missing in this round (VID). If you 
need those features, keep using R2 for that portion of your project. 
The new GUI won't be compatible with the old ones anyways, so you 
might not want to delay starting migration because you may want to 
rewrite your GUI later.

Did not know this doc got updated :-) http://rebol.com/r3/docs/project.html

BrianH: I think that everybody here understands, that we aim for 
3.0 Core release. But even that one needs to be feautre complete. 
I would really like, if Tasking for e.g. would be there, because 
it CAN influence some modules, mezzanines or even natives. This is 
fundamental feature to have imo, and some devs (Doc - Cheyenne) are 
waiting for it. Then add back console. CGI under Windows was solved, 
Netwokring protocols are going to be adressed hopefully soon too 
:-)

Yes, project doc updated. But, some priority changes are happening.

The main change is to move HOST Source to a higher priority.

Nice overview. Especially how long it took you. Give some "benchmark" 
on productivity.

Hi Robert, yes, it is indeed interesting "where the time goes".

Btw - for future, to speed up some developments, I propose the bounty 
system - http://bounties.morphzone.org/.... we would just need to 
define few rules, e.g.:

- the ability to merge bounties

- the ability to predefine possible implementator - not everybody's 
code can be realistically accepted, etc.

I think that that way we can speed up some developments too ...

Hmm - interesting note in http blog comment section - what abot https? 
We never touched that area. Or maybe once, when Max suggested to 
look for Putty code. We need https surely too ....

What's Putty's license? If license compatible we may be able to borrow 
its SSL code.

BSD or MIT... yes that is exactly what I proposed... it it VERY well 
coded and exceptionally small the whole putty app is in fact smaller 
than rebol.exe IIRC :-)


it has a LOT of goodies beyond a full SSH2 encryption set and EVERYTHING 
is stand-alone it relies on no external dll or libs.

even for things like zlib.

(gzip)

So, do we add https to the list? No matter if it gets adressed, it 
should be there imo. We somehow magically missed on that feature 
thru the whole development process. I never seen any blog, etc., 
which would even mention it ....

I think I might rename my nick to - "watchdog" :-)

yes https should be on the list... as a separate scheme, or a config 
of the http scheme as it was on R2

also server https would be nice - that one was not possible even 
with R2 https - I mean - you could not open open https://:443

Carl once admitted that is was possible but not "enabled".   AFAIK, 
he never told anyone the trick.  maybe its unstable and didn't want 
to put time on it.


theoretically, one could build an https server protocol in R2... 
the encryption algorithms are all there AFAIK in /pro licenses.  
its just knowing the handshaking protocols and all that... I look 
briefly at the RFC once and its not "obvious" to implement... at 
least not for the bg I have.

SSL is what you need. HTTPS would happen as a side effect.

but there is some of that built in to R2 already... which is why 
I say its *possible* to do in R2 as a server, the SSL code already 
in R2  would just have to be adapted to act as the server side of 
the handshake/transfer.

Wrong group: We need to add it to R3 :)

We need to add it to the priority list ;-)

Tasking is there already :-)

Just a question regarding GUI: We have GURUs like Henrik, Ashley, 
Cypre, Maxim. II have read that host source is being released to 
Maxim and Cypre. Why don't you build a GUI Team made of all those 
GUYs to push forward the developement ? I think they will make something 
explosive ! Also Gabriele has experiences because he build a prototype 
VID 3.4.

Our main goal would be to build the official GUI for R3, which Carl 
is forming from scratch. Right now it would be a bit foolish to go 
build our own UI to immediately go into competition with VID 3.4. 
It would be double work.

(I would still like to see Gabriele's MakeGOB dialect come to life. 
It can be very useful.)

Giuseppe - just don't worry :-) Look at the document Carl posted 
regarding host code release - there are several phases and Cyphre 
is definitely involved. I hope we cooperate for good ...

I didn't want to say: "in place of Carl" but "together with Carl" 
once the low level GFX dixes are complete.

*fixes

yes, that makes more sense :-)

Henrik, you and the other people mentioned have great skills but 
I see sometime that everyone is moving creating his one version of 
something.

Once the alpha stage ends and carl will define the roots of the new 
VID a group of high competent developers could cooperate and create 
the final product quickly and professionally.

I prefer View engine to be adressed first, definitely. More of Max 
stuff inside, more of Draw flexibility, caching, etc. .... then VID 
...

i vote for GUI  team !

And don't count on me to be part of it i'm just an idiot unable to 
understand my own source codes so the source codes from others .... 
too much a challenge

but yea maxim cyphre, gabriele, steeve, and any other people than 
me would feet the task

and they have pretty good ideas in the different area i'm sure they 
will rock VID

i'm more interrested in developping in rebol than any languages ... 
 just the idea to go back to C programing world annoys me so  much 
.... CArl is guilty with rebol he ruined my mood to code in anything 
else ....

main problem in ssl is the certificate no ?

Host code works now - Carl reported he once again succesfully separated 
host from Core ....

Is this actually going to be released? And could we hope, the same 
thing would happen to R2, which is more interesting (to me at least).

The host code release is going to be limited to 2-3 devs at first 
to weed out bugs.

Geomol - why is R2 more interesting to you? I can't somehow understand 
it :-) There is many areas R3 already surpasses R2, is more precisely 
defined and consistent. Time to move to R3 really soon imo ...

I doubt you will see R2 source release anytime soon. R2 is monolithic 
in design, who knows how it is (or is not) internally separated. 
R3 was the answer to R2 inefficiency in that regard, so if you ask 
for R2 to have such a feature, you ask for R3 in fact :-)

Geomol - host release plan can be found here - http://www.rebol.net/wiki/Host-Builds

I think that initially it will be released to only handset of developers, 
and after two or three weeks (my estimate),  maybe others will be 
added too ...

I have a huge graphical application written in R2 (Canvas RPaint, 
close to 13'000 lines of code), that I can't get released because 
of host problems and differences in REBOL between OSs. I do much 
of my development under OS X, and I have lots of utilities and applications 
written in R2, that suffer from problems in REBOL/View, that I might 
be able to solve, if the host code was released. I have tried to 
look into the graphical part of R3, but I can't see, how I'm able 
to convert my code to R3.


(I'm sorry to say so, but R3 to me looks like a hobby project, not 
a serious business projekt.)

Geomol, I wouldn't expect any further development on lowlevel R2 
View.

R3 is Alpha! A little unfair to call it a hobby project..

Geomol, last year I have written the same thing but this year a lot 
has happened.

Once alpha i finalized and VID is complete expect a boost into the 
development.

Also I suppose REBOL is short of money and programmers so they cannot 
speed up the project.

Geomol - you are completly off. I would not expect reaction like 
yours from person like you. Calling R3 dev. effort a hobby project? 
Where do you live, man? On a different planet? Sorry for being picky, 
but R2 dev. effort, compared to what we achieved with R3, is a complete 
joke, yet you call R3 being a hobby project?

Geomol - wait half a year, and you might get even View/VID in R3. 
Core 3.0 is close.