World: r3wp

And yes, I am fully aware of what a web-public forum is.

I think I have just made it clear that I don't think it's too late 
for R3. Far from it, as the point is that we are very near to being 
able to start with it, and good progress is being made

I'm sure the one or two rebolers left when it is released will find 
it very productive.

We have places for these discussions - this is a productive group. 
Never mind, that is the last I'll talk about this subject here. No 
more meta-discussions, back to the real work :)

work = force x distance

if you never travel the distance, you're not doing the work

That's cool, we will have the best competitive advantage ever :-)

and no release = no distance

That's the misinterpretation that bothers me. It is clear to me that 
distance is being traveled all the time

Anyone wonder why so many rebolers are not helping with the R3 effort 
??

I am not a physicist, Graham, I am a programmer. There is little 
force and infinite distance involved in my work.

Because they know they are wasting their time ... they are not being 
heard.

Carl is indifferent to their concerns.  He pretends he hears, but 
he is deaf.

Well said, Brian. There's also a point in our work where it becomes 
too innovative for outsiders to understand

All those mini-polls he hold .. never a decision is made.

He pretends to engage in the community.  But that is all it is .. 
a pretense while he carries on his own agenda.

That's what some people think, but they just can't see

Sure .. all of us are dumb.

He should announce the decisions more often, I agree.

No, you are practising a different profession

Would you let me doctor your patients?

Yes, I am in a profession where we practice transparency, and evidence 
based methods.

Still, your transparent patient data would mean little to me

But .. at least it's there.

As is more and more REBOL code and communication

Are you saying that the scientific method does not apply to software 
development??

The current issue is a forum to make R3 communication more transparent, 
yet you are railing against it

Where did I say that?

No, that is not the issue.

I strongly support a forum... I just don't support a forum which 
doesn't exist in any form.

And what when it does in a few weeks?

Carl has evaluated the alternatives and has seen that using them 
would cost him at least as much time, spent on competing products 
instead of REBOL

I could have told him that right away

Frankly that is nonsense.

And there we are again...

Now who's going around in circles, and who's making progress?

The other issue is that at the current stage of development, R3 needs 
apps. We need network apps to test the network infrastructure, GUI 
apps to test that, the list goes on. We don't need these to do a 
development release of R3, but we need to do a development release 
of R3 to get these apps made. You didn't think that Carl was going 
to delay the R3 release to write a forum, did you?

Carl is a guy who won't drink wine unless he grows it himself.  Period.

And that, presumably, is why you chose REBOL all those years ago

Nope.

I'm still purchasing software ...

Well, it is for me

Graham, Carl is not making wine here, he is making a tool. You need 
to use a tool during the development process in order to be sure 
your tool works.

It is the only way to further the design.

People are going to use REBOL to write forum software, or the many 
applications that do the same thing, technologically speaking. We 
will need to have test apps of that nature to make sure that apps 
of that kind will work. The reason that tool-builders use their own 
tools during their development process is to make sure that their 
tools work, and to get ideas. That is why other programming languages 
use tools built in those programming languages.

he should decide to write something else.

like Cheyenne ...

there's nothing compelling about forum software ...

The point is to get the release out now so *other* people can test 
it.

Then why did we have such a huge discussion about a good one?