World: r3wp

We should really have an alpha+gui release

No, it's not a flaw, but just something that was missing. It's quite 
simple.

I still lack access to the new server

Also of note: Making an extra style for a new situation is the way 
to go as it gives less code than trying to make a single style very 
smart. Smart styles are harder to code. This creates a lot of styles, 
so I'll have to create a style tree.

At least new VID is not as strict as Gabriele's was, where even size 
difference meant having new style.

just something that was missing

 - couldn't be panel and group fixed to work like Container? :-) What 
 is their other difference other than Container aligns, but panel 
 and group don't? :-)

Pekr, I guess you have to wait until I can give a proper explanation 
with screenshots. "Fixing" panel to work like container would be 
like "fixing" scroller to be like a slider. They are for two different 
purposes.

The Friday following thanksgiving is known as Black Friday ... would 
have been sweet to release R3 alpha/gui

we have black friday R3 for 3 or 4 years ... who knows for how long 
already ... it is almost becoming irrelevant ...

I'm not sure of Carl's decision to write a BBS now ....

So easily distracted ...

BTW, I don't think what Oldes does influences Carl ...

Have I missed something ? Isn't vBulletting or phpBBS the choice 
?

Writing an entire BBS system in Rebol ? It will take 3 months !

Someone has eaten to much on tanksgiving day.

Yeah ... I think it's crazy.  Perhaps Carl subconscioiusly fears 
failure and doesn't realy want to release alpha - so he keeps coming 
up with blocking requests like this.

Unfortunately I am beginning to see Carl as the weakest link in this 
whole process.   The last time this happened ...  Jaime went to his 
house to persuade him to release something, and he did.  Now Jaime 
is gone ....

Perhaps all the R3 contributors need to get together to formulate 
a strategy/plan .... and present it to Carl.  Otherwise we're all 
wasting our time here.

Hmm.... looks like no one agrees.  Perhaps we let this farce continue 
....

All I can do is withdraw my offer to assist

with setting up the new server and software

in protest

Graham - we can't do anything ...

No, not true.

we can refuse to be a part of the comedy of errors

It may come as a surprise because I have previously made it clear 
that I think the delays are very harmful, but I actually think that 
Carl's current decision to do a BBS is a good strategy

Carl once again runs in circles, and ppl are becoming upset. Still 
dragging our attention by blogs, questions, but with zero resolution 
to final decisions. This project is pretty much missmanaged, and 
RT without marketing manager and really a solid aproach is a bad 
joke.

Sorry Kaj ... but you're not making sense

How can Carl's decision to write a BBS be rational?

I'd be interested to have you explain why?

Why now at this critical juncture?

After 10 years he wants to write a BBS .. he's already written one 
with Gregg, volker etc

Because people are overestimating the time it will take to bring 
up a small BBS

It's not rational

I think Carl will do it quite quickly, and all his reasons for it 
hold water

he's already said he does not  want to be distracted from GUI and 
core

And I think he wants to write a Rebol client as well ....

I was actually surprised that he considered the available alternatives. 
I know they suck and need to be replaced

What is this but another distraction ...?

kaj ... it's called a temporary measure ...

pending someone eg Oldes, writing a BBS.

Kaj - this is plain nonsense. We saw it with Carl's going in cave 
for Unicode, as well as for DevBase, as well as Rebservices - still 
the same - wait for some dependency, which never gets finished.

I was really harsh on r3-alpha channel, but if such leadership was 
in some of my subteams, I would fire such person pretty soon!

Do you think the solution lies in making my and Carl's opinion out 
ot be nonsense?

The reason he gives is totally inadequate ... it's just some type 
of internal conflict resolution he is making to try and delay

Typical reaction. Who tries to make you opinion being nonsense? The 
thing either help organisation of the whole project, or it does not.

As Ashley says, Carl plays while Rome burns

and Kaj, and Oldes are supporting instrumentals

We really need to get to the state, where others can start to participate. 
And it will happen only if there is some kind of DevBase functional 
and Carl ready to upload R3 sources in there. I do understand the 
need for the existance of supporting infrastructure, but it can be 
done in parallel. We constantly wait for this or that, instead of 
releasing something ..

I'm reminded of an old Amiga product ... Fantavision