World: r3wp

VID3 as a base, is based upon stronger foundation than VID2, that 
is clear even now ... but it needs to be more complete. I think that 
such things as release schedule should be well planned.

Sorry, but it's not me who's doing that

WTF?

Kaj, just because you are frustrated don't try to put your frustration 
on our shoulders please.

ok, no more debate. back to work for me.

You were clearly said, that now there is rather concrete release 
plan, feature by feature, it is just not public yet.

I said the previous time that I don't blame any of you. I'm just 
trying to get a straight answer to a simple question

You were answered, weren't you?

I can provide you with plan, I think it is not secret.

Yes, I know what I wanted to know, in the end

Basically yes, View will be released in 2 - 3 months, Core in less 
than month imo.

But also watch your motives. I have the feeling, that it is our nature, 
that the closer the thing is to release, the more depressing even 
one week delay is.

You waited for 18 months already? Is one more month for Core like 
R3 so much more? And 2 - 3 months for solid View replacement?

We've gone over all that last time

So ok, my only suggestion the is to leave rebol altogether, because 
no matter what, noone can help you ...

I start to understand Henrik - work with R2, and once R3 is here, 
it is here.

new alpha released with preliminary unicode support

will we have a pre-release of view even without VID3, because i have 
some projects that use a homemade VID ?

not according to the plan. however many parts of View and graphics 
aren't ready yet either, so they will probably be ready around the 
same time.

btw, who is working on VID3 ?

Gabriele mainly. Carl supervises. I'm the style developer.

As I have written to the mailing list: dear collegues, use R2 and 
do not wait for R3. It will be a gift of God when it will come. If 
we put R3 developers under pressure there is the probability that 
wrong choices will be made.

As for curiosity: which projects is the delay of R3 blocking you 
from releasing ? I have the suspect that many are complaining becaus 
their "new toy" is not there and not because they desperatly need 
it.

I am also sure that people waiting R3 with good motivations are legitimate 
of complayning but the other don't and they should be more patient 
and give the developers respect for the "free" time they give to 
the project.

Anyone is free to consider my opinion the way they want. I'll sure 
you understand my posts are written with good intentions and not 
to start a flame.

Please read one or two months back in this thread for that. I said 
a lot about it

Basically, R3 is not replacing R2 for nothing. There are many places 
where R3 can be used where R2 can't

I happen to be building two operating systems where that is the case

It may seem that I'm putting the pressure on, but this longwinded 
situation has put a lot of pressure on me to defend REBOL in these 
projects

Several people have agreed that REBOL needs a platform to be the 
language for, and this situation puts it in jeopardy of missing these 
particular boats

What kind of OS's. Are you talking about full fledget operating systems 
or some kind of embedded os

He's talking full fledged: Syllable.

Kaj, which is the best community approach between the following two:

Ask for Rebol3 in every place and force the developers to answer 
about a release date or...

Assume as FACT that Rebol 3 is in late and won't come so soon as 
expected and start a collaborative approach torwards the work of 
developers and the whole project in general ?

I am not just talking about you but about maby people in many places 
ROARING about the unrespected release date. Complaining does not 
help.

Collaborating in every plase does.

They have alredy the "pedal on the metal". No more  power can be 
taken from this engine. More we stress it more will the project have 
design and implementation problems.

Rebol 3 will come sometime the next year. This is (probably) the 
only fact we have.

the next year using an earth metric ?   ;-)

Please read back in this thread. The problem is not that R3 takes 
time. The problem is that promises keep being made and broken

Kaj, I have already read it and I agree with you: it is a Rebol Tech 
problem. It is better for us knowing no release date at all. I'll 
never ask it as I have learn to work on what we already have and 
not on what will there be in the future.

The first public alpha is supposed to be quite soon, but is not yet 
ready. The official plan will be released soon, after some refinement. 
All of the developers are busy developing or in other ways, or both. 
The first public release of DevBase should come with the alpha. Dates 
are approximate, as not all of the factors are yet known, but Carl 
now knows better than to provide unrealistic release dates (we hope).

Giuseppe, the collaborative approach you're talking about is impossible 
if we have nothing to work with. That's one of my gripes

Exactly this was promised for early this month

Kaj: Personally I prefer having access to some programmer documentation 
about implemantations, commands, structure and so on. So I would 
undestand how to setup my future projects.

Then, In my little world I live in, I would start writing: "I don't 
like this for that reason" , "I like it for this other".

Next year

 for me could be even 2009 to go out of alpha/beta but then I am sure 
 it will be a good implementation and not one produced under pressure. 
 However we must have an adult approach to the release date problem: 
 now we know that Carl has the defect of giving release date the team 
 can't respect...

Kaj, outside circumstances changed the plans. Two of the lead developers 
had to work on another task for a bit, and it took longer than expected. 
This happens. Others have stepped up to pick up some of the slack 
so development proceeds, but the particular parts those two developers 
were working on got put on hold. Those two developers are back now 
so developement on their sections is continuing.

... the next time Carl will write "this is the release date" we will 
answer him that the release date is not important but having a good 
language is.