World: r3wp

The R3 GUI does the separation of form and function better than Delphi 
(or even HTML/CSS/Javascript).

the chat system is too hard on my eyes :(

And Carl is currently busy generating R3 documentation.

When do new-users will be accepted inside the chat app in R3 ?

Carl is doing very good and needed infrastructure thing. I always 
support such things. Both DevBase and Docs are needed.

Kib2, likely when the chat server is finished being ported to R3 
on Linux. We were running into problems with Unicode user names on 
R2, since R2 can't do case-insensitive comparisons of Unicode strings, 
even when encoded in UTF-8.

BrianH: ok, thanks. What about  allowing ASCII chars in user names 
until it's really finished?

Nowadays there is no web without JS
 - I take it you are not:
- Blind
- Using a text-mode browser (similar constraints to blind)

- Running a safe browser (similar constraints to Firefox with the 
NoScript extension)

Of course there is the web without JS - otherwise "Unobtrusive Javascript" 
wouldn't be needed.

Don't forget: Running old or mobile hardware - JS sucks on those 
too.

Here's a non-contrived example for separating structure from form.

Kib2: Not my call, though I think chat could use better user management 
functions before we open it up again. We need to be able to *delete* 
users and all of their messages to deal with spammers - not just 
disable. We also need for the admin to be able to rename a user on 
request, to cut down on duplicate user accounts when users change 
their mind about their ID - we already have those.

At present I allow users to write a custom screen in RebGUI that 
loads into a tab.  Of course they can write as much REBOL code there 
as they want.  But it would be safer if they just wrote presentation 
layer stuff .. and let my program allow the appropriate functionality.

Of course I could write my own layout function and disable any Rebol 
actions ..

You can do that by disabling the DO action and just having the other 
actions, which *you* write. Your users will just do layouts, and 
your artist will do the styles.

The definition of actions is separate from their use. The users just 
specify the use.

BrainH: I insist - there is no web without JS :-) What you describe 
is anomalies :-)

Is the web patched or just evolving?

Yes, badly and slowly, respectively :(

Umm... one of the aims of Unobtrusive JS is to allow nonJS enabled 
browsers to work

Yup. The equivalent in the R3 GUI is to change the implementation 
of the actions.

Eg. if submitting a form, a JS enabled browser would see an acknowledgement 
in the div below the form, but a nonJS browser would be taken to 
a new page with the acknowledgement

Pekr, working for a web company, those "anomalies" are the bane of 
my existence :(

Does qtask.com work with JS disabled??

The mobile vversion does.

I wonder why there should be a problem to have decent JS engine for 
mobile platforms? Don't they have full browsers already?

Mostly not. Only a few new phones made in the last year come close.

iPhone??

Starting with Windows Mobile 6 (most smartphones run Windows Mobile) 
the browser is roughly comparable with IE6.

However, most phones in use are years old, and even most of tthe 
Windows Mobile ones aren't up to 6 yet.

The iPhone is a more popular new phone than any of the other new 
smartphones, but is still a tiny fraction when compared to *all* 
new smartphones, let alone the regular phones.

Time for everyone to update their phones then.

If they want the appropriate experience

Are you going to give me several hundred dollars? That is what it 
would take to just update *my* phone past WM6.

You should ask Reichart!

Or to buy an iPhone, which I can't use anyway because it has no keyboard 
- I can't use an onscreen keyboard (bad hands). I'm trying to limit 
what I ask Reichart for, and since my phone is representative of 
what the market has it would be good to keep using it.

Representative of the qtask users market or the cellphone market?

Both. Phones with good browsers are rare and it would cost many billions 
to change that.

The iPod Touch has sold well this Christmas. It's almost hardware 
equivalent to the iPhone, so the marketshare would cover that device 
as well.

Heh ... stimulate the economy though :)

This is a little off-topic for the group though :(

iPod Touch has internet connectivity?

oh yeah .. can it run R3 ? :)

Yes, wifi

No, license restrictions.

Apple won't let any interpreters on the iPhone/Touch except the JS 
interpreter in Safari, no other exceptions.

That's why the only alternative development platform fot the iPhone 
is based on Mono: ahead-of-time compilation with static linking.

Oh well, a R3 interpreter written in JS seems necessary then.

On my todo list.

R3 interpreter written in JS? :-) How fast it can be? Besides that 
- don't we have better job to do than to obey stupid Apple's licensing 
policy? Why not to use devices like HTC Touch Pro for e.g. then?

Pekr, Brian has a very very long todo list :)