World: r3wp

Really the whole buzz is focussed around the XmlHTTPRequest object 
that Microsoft, then others added to their Javascript environment. 
 It isn't pretty (by Rebol standards) and has some limitations, but 
is effective enough to have opened new avenues in what one can do 
in creating web applications.  **cough** Squigglz **cough**  You 
can tell this is a Microsoft 'innovation' by the awful name 'XmlHTTPRequest' 
(XML not required), but there it is...

one short question: what browsers support it?

From Wikipedia -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX
* Apple Safari 1.2 and above
* Konqueror

* Microsoft Internet Explorer (and derived browsers) 5.0 and above
* Mozilla/Mozilla Firefox (and derived browsers) 1.0 and above
* Netscape 7.1 and above
* Opera 7.6 and above
* Opera Mobile Browser 8.0 and above.

http://ajaxian.com/archives/2005/12/6_places_you_mu.html

One I like is the info box that Netflix displays when you hover over 
a movie link.  Can be a little annoying if it comes up too quickly 
or inadvertantly, but overall is a nice touch.

The only relation I can see of Ajax and Rebol, is a rebol server 
spitting out Javascript.

Unless you build a RoR framework  (Rebol On Rails)

When dealing with Javascript, you should understand prototype.js 
 here's a tutorial  http://particletree.com/features/quick-guide-to-prototype/

I think Reichart has a kind of RoR with Qtask (or he has very stupid 
porgrammers, which can't be true because we find our programmers 
using more or less the same alogrithm ;-)

Maarten - what algorith do you mean?

Qtask is both a framework, and an example of REBOL<>Ajax crossover. 
 It's a web (and Ajax) app, and will be one or many more Rebol apps. 
(including AltME).  But you don't need a large framework to piggyback 
on Ajax implementations.

Yup...

Petr: at devcon we discussed how you find a good programmer and work 
with them, and it turned out we did that more or less the same.

Chris, I know that, but a good framework (like RoR) helps you a lot 
with medium-sized implementations

Indeed, that was a response to 'only relation ... rebol spitting 
out Javascript'.

Sure, a framework helps, but opportunities are not always medium-sized.

Maarten - never studies Ruby on Rails, but isn't IOS good framework 
at itself? (of course without web templating) .... I still can see 
IOS as powerfull, and imo things like Qtask, or Beer + some templating 
+ IOS-like app protocol, could be stronger ....

I think Ajax is not good for clasic pages, as it make the page invisible 
for Google, it's nice that XmlHTTPRequest is working in most of the 
browsers but it's nothing impressive, it just gets the data from 
server without ned to reload all the page.

I still think it's a poor replacement for ordinary apps... browsers 
were never meant to do this kind of thing.

Oldes (David?), you make a good point, but think of it the other 
way around.

As the web moves to the X-Web (even this silly Web 2.0), Google's 
life as a search engine will end.


I'm pro google, and I think they offer a GREAT service. But take 
most companies off the web and Google is a lot less interesting, 
and it becomes a glorified Yellow Pages.


Of course it will still be filled with open information, but I suspect 
it will lose its shine.

Interesting, bever thought about that. Seems Google has thought about 
that too. Because with firefox they can build spiders which press 
buttons, read the results from the dom etc. Means you may get some 
robot-users which try mad input..

And they have this new traffic-tools for webmasters, where you can 
see what is searched, how yoursite is ranked etc. So everyone can 
tune his ajax enough to be googable too.

I guess that's also why they now have Google Base.

Henrik: your remark is the classic one somebody makes when a technology 
is about to be misused for a killer app. Now we know Ajax/Web 2.0 
will boom ;-)

sadly, it probably will. it's the same thing as using MS Word to 
build webpages. never meant to do it, but it was shoved in there 
for the sake of adding some random feature

Agreed.

think this is heavy on Ajax..but it is cool
http://www.fluxiom.com/

Interesting.  Is there a site to play with?

I've said it before, but to press the point.. If Rebol wants to keep 
with the times, it needs to create a javascript dialect

I find fluxiom's style sheet to be 'inspiring'   :)

Tahoma is a nice font.

it needs to create a javascript dialect

 - then instead of waiting for someone else to do it, either create 
 one yourself or start a project of like-minded individuals. ;)

I personally don't need one.. Rebol does.

If you don't need it, why would Rebol need one? Also I think if it 
was needed, more people would have asked for it and someone would 
have made attempts at writing one. Still, it could be interesting 
with a code generator to other languages that way...

Javascript needs a Rebol dialect, hmm -- 
http://www.crockford.com/JSON/index.html
http://www.crockford.com/javascript/remedial.html
http://www.crockford.com/javascript/recommend.html

Close, but not quite...

neat.... I might read up on that, thanks :-)

Henrik, I know javascript, but the learning curve for it is harsh.. 
A dialect would shave off that curve.

The google issue is a good one, search engines are the reasons that 
previous things like frames and iframes failed. As Neilson often 
states, since the advent of powerfull search engines like google, 
there is no longer a real concept of websites..rather from a web 
user point of view, it is just a search box and a list result web 
 pages with what they want to find

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-futhtml1/?ca=dgr-lnxw01FutureHTML

http://www.adaptivepath.com/publications/essays/archives/000385.php

A-/Synchronous use of XMLHttpReqest (Pushing data from a server to 
a browser async style.. )
http://wehrlos.strain.at/httpreq/client.html

Actualy I dont understand a bit of the principle and functionality 
of AJAX, is there someone here who can explain me the extra value 
of AJAX? (it looks all like a very old priciple that was put in a 
jacket with strange programming languages..)

You got it Norman.....I went through the same "what the hell is this 
that did not alrewady exist"


AJAX is another way of say "Don't refresh teh page every time, just 
send me the small amount of data I need"

Thats clear Reichart ..thanks.. ;-)

Qtask uses a Rebol version of AJAX (we call it Comet).

And when is the Comet coming?

The best quote I've seen for Ajax is: "now the browser works like 
it should have in the first place"

Yep. And Microsoft accidentally did that. How sad is that?

something about monkeys with billions banging on keyboards ...

We are activily working on Comet, and the framework.  We should see 
the first hints of the framework on Qtask in about 2 weeks is my 
guess.  The lead of the FRamework just finished the full Contact 
Manager which is live on Qtask now.

Our plan is actually to split off a page and start the UI from scratch 
for the Framework.  it will be fun.  We will simply do everything 
one step at a time, and correctly.