World: r3wp

Pekr: Czech sort does not have anything in common with Unicode. It 
is complicated (much more complicated than useful in computer era). 
Any code (Unicode, ISO Latin2, Windows 1250, ...) can be used, the 
sort algorithm needs to be implemented in any case.

I know those are two distinctive things, but slightly related - simply 
put - rebol's internationalisation support is pretty weak in that 
regard ...

that was Gabriele who asked about sorting and if it needs unicode 
... we need unicode for rebdb though ...

Gabriele: I checked the support of capital letters and found out, 
that all Czech capital letters found in ISO Latin 2 were supported, 
i.e. case conversions were supported. This is somewhat simpler than 
Czech sort.

so far, I will do with calling external conversions routines for 
submitted strings from polish partner ...

I am just saying, that having unicode would be nice :-)

has anyone thought out already at least, how to get unicode in rebol 
working? What becomes with bitsets, which are 8bit based?

rebol's internationalisation support is pretty weak in that regard

 - if you mean that REBOL does not support Czech sorting, then you 
 are right. Otherwise Rebol supports Czech coding supporting ISO Latin 
 2 as mentioned above

not only that - it could be properly supported by sort/collation 
kind of functionality, as other environments do (mySQL). Rebol even 
does not use its system/locale in its own calendar ;-)

in that regard, I wanted to ask Ladislav, about security - is it 
possible to protect system words, even to not be unprotected? :-) 
Imagine rebol would use system/locale for things like system messages 
in order to be translatable, but then someone could change the strings, 
which could be big security risk (user answering to different question)

since I saw Unicode mentioned in the chat message....


I am putting in my "+1" request for Unicode support. eg. languages 
like Chinese

pity we don't know RT's priority list even a bit. 1.3.2, that is 
the cool thing. However, async kernel retired no-one is able to know 
for how long, rebcode is retired no-one knows what and when happens 
to it (e.g. will there be bitmap opcodes as discussed implemented?), 
unicode, rif (where even RT admits it is important for Altme2.0/coop 
project, rebdb is stagnatting because of that), rebin, we wait for 
what-is-going-to-happen-with-VID since devcon, being said we will 
know "soon" ... etc ... So, what is next, guys, and when? :-)

It is not about "we tell you and you quote us on that" thing, but 
about bit of a planning for others ... we surely don't want 14.11. 
exact dates :-) Just months, average ....:-)

I agree. 14.11 is a bit far away. Month would be a lot better! (Did 
i miss something? Opps, SCNR ;)

Volker, that 14.11 was a joke reference to 14-Nov-2005, the date 
given at the conference to all questions about release dates, not 
a version number. That date was given as a joke that many didn't 
get, apparently. Myself included, but I didn't make it to the conference.

Briah - Volker surely knows it was a joke ;-) He just tried to point 
out imo, that we could get some features schedule in months or year-quarters 
...

Hey, noone told me it was originally a joke until after services 
showed up early. Just trying to help :)

But I agree about the schedule. RT has been cut much slack by me 
because of the holidays though.

Brian - you were invited to help with Rebcode in some area - was 
it docs? What is the state of rebcode - nearly final? Is there anything 
else of why it can't be released into production rebol version? Security?

I was invited to help with the docs. I said yes. I never heard back. 
Oh well.

:-) ;-) :-(

But yes, security is abysmal in rebcode. That would need some major 
changes to get into production. I've never seen an easier way to 
crash REBOL. At least it's probably not exploitable, as even the 
slightest error in your code causes REBOL to core dump.

That's what alpha means, so I'm not complaining :)

It's funny, I had to reboot Windows more often while testing rebcode 
than I have ever needed to for an entire year with that computer. 
Server 2003 is very stable, but crashing processes a dozen times 
or more a day can wear on it a little, so I needed to reboot every 
couple days. Normally I would need to reboot only for occasional 
updates of certain third-party software, never more than once a couple 
months.

OTOH, rebcode is great if you know what you are doing, or are running 
code written by someone who does, or generated by a code generator 
written by someone who does. The semantics seem to have stabilized, 
so you can get to work on those generators. When they resolve the 
crashes rebcode will be pretty sweet for REBOL.

Is the rebol.dll included with the sdk2.62 the same as the viewdll 
that is the plugin ?

If so, what are the magic numbers to use to make it act as the plugin 
?  ( the old plugin doesn't have AGG ).
Thanks.

I have rebol scripts for converting chars to unicode, the problem 
is, that Rebol cannot print unicode strings and the socond thing 
is, that you need conversion tables. There must be some way how to 
distribute these tables from network, because I'm sure you don't 
want to make Rebol about 2MB bigger than now you to support some 
charsets.

there should be archive of mu ucs2 script which I use almost every 
day: http://oldes.multimedia.cz/rss/projects/ucs2_latest.rip

thanks, oldes!

if it is so big, should be plug-ins .... included top 5 or so languages 
directly maybe ... dunno ...

it would not be so big, in the archive are compressed the charset 
sources as well (almost 10MB uncompressed)

Graham: yes. I think there were someone who already tried it with 
the old activex plugin. If not... I'll ask Carl

From Core Louis asked "Does anyone know when rebol will support unicode?"

nobody knows - scroll up a bit - I asked the same question not so 
long ago ....

Q: What's the reason for moving submission date for Demo Contest 
to 31.1. ? Thanks.

Thanks, Peter and Pekr. But of course I am a little disappointed 
as I badly need unicode support right now.

I wonder if there is a C dll somewhere that would give unicode support 
to the SDK. I have been searching the web for one, but haven't found 
anything yet. I hate the thought of going back to C, as I haven't 
programmed in C for a long time.

Louis - php uses its "own function", called iconv. AFAIK, iconv is 
unix utility, maybe you can use that command-line tool or maybe it 
is available as a library? Dunno ...

Louis what you want to do with Unicode. What sort of support you 
need?

Jaime - e.g. what I need is quite simple - having app on Windows, 
I need to submit my data to mySQL data in Poland, so it needs to 
be translated to another charset .... (but IIRC it can be done on 
server, so I will hopefully manage it without rebol supporting unicode 
for now )

I have two needs: (1) I need to display Greek, English, and Indonesia 
in the same file. (2) I need to be able to convert uppercase Greek 
characters with accent and breathing marks to lowercase without losing 
the accent and breathing marks.

Displaying is probably the most difficult, specially for indonesia 
language. Conversion should be that hard. I guess you are receiving 
your data in unicode format. So you will need a parser to scan the 
bytes in the unicode buffer (a simple string!) and maybe generate 
the display by using the glyphs that encode each char.

Very low level solution but possible.

Now I don't know anything about unicode format, but writing a parser 
for it, should be that hard.

I found this: http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/downloads.jsp


Now I'll have to see if I can get it to work with REBOL Command SDK.

Documentation here: http://icu.sourceforge.net/userguide/icu.pdf

Does this look to you pros that it will work with REBOL command.

why is displaying difficult for "Indonesian language"?

Indonesian is no problem. Greek with accent and breathing marks is 
the problem.

Can 'run be added to the sdk ?  It's in IOS ...

hmm, run is in latest View 1.3.2. Do you miss it with SDK?