World: r3wp

good to know - so once RT decides they will finally produce Rebol/Media, 
you can help :-) View is still somehow underpowered for anything 
like game development - very slow in blitting, no nice movements 
on screen etc. :-)

you need a renderer and that's here whrer we need REBOL  to set up 
animation to set up the global UI

Pekr sure I milite since 3 years to have a complete multimedia solution 
in rebol ... AGG for me is a good step forward in this way

for example is it better to provide for sound acces to the sound 
interface or giving accept to a sound format ... Actually  REBOL 
is close because we can only use wav we have no control upon the 
sound interface ... With the basement control you can add easyly 
what ever sound format you want ...

view plug-ins should change it a bit, as some things needing speed 
could help a bit, although I fear View would have to be recoded. 
I do remember Dave Haynie (dunno if you know Amiga :-), he once told 
me (in some interview), that they coded they own "small os" under 
Windows, when they wanted to get good base for Scala Multimedia ...

I also wonder if Rebol would have to use DirectX then, but if so, 
I am full after that - there is probably no single installation of 
Windows not having DirectX installed ...

but how to stay cross platform ...

20 years ago Wav and Midi format where the only ones now in day you 
have more than 10 sound encoding format ....  An alternative could 
be to traslate systematically the what ever encoded sound file to 
a WAV one and then play it but franckly do you thing people that 
are using a jukebox software (like winamp for example) will accept 
1) to wait 5 minutes for theire files to be translated then have 
a poor audio quality ???

oh, we ar in AGG group, sorry, off-topic ...

we planned on fmod library integration :-)

not at all that's a degretion but we are in the topic this example 
show that the medium is not the media ;)

people need standards and known thing if you say to them hey we have 
a very good sound sytem but you need to write a script to make your 
sound somme freaks will be happy, the majority of the people  will 
be very upset ...

Pekr imagine you compose you graphics with inkscape (SVG editor very 
complete and free) then you set your animation process with AGG and 
then you put it online in your site. People come along in you web 
site make the click on the link to you new file then rebol/view plugin 
launch and run you SVG graphics with you AGG animation. In front 
of that you have flash sure but flash is made by a specialised in 
the grpahic industry company and not by a generic company ;)

and flash is not stand alone ;)

you can offer the animation to people or make off line version of 
your work

So sure the ideal would be to have a complete REBOL dedicated IDE 
that exploit to it's maximum all the possibility of rebol ...

like the equivalent for the macromedia flash.

The need for a good IDE has been high on my "thought list" these 
days.

With more "companies" using REBOL, the need for better tools goes 
up.

means high better editor too?

better -< faster

Yes - probably IDE starts with better editor.

yes, basic screen designer. Sometimes properly laying-out your screen 
takes you more time than to code support stuff :-)

Although, with the bug fixes in View, I use that editor a lot more 
than I used too. :)

Yes, GUI work for apps often takes me 75% of my time -- so anything 
to reduce that helps.

Agreed, that agg does good things to refrsh-speed :)

CArl franckly I use all the day long Crimson Editor and it's suffisant 
... but sure an IDE that allow people to manage code / AGG graphics 
animation (a little bit like flash studio ) would be top ...

(In other words, 75% of the app development time.)

I use CE as well, but often switch to use View editor to edit ftp 
files

But would need better support for "macros". such that the gui-designer 
can directly interact with the code.

What I like about view editor is:  editor system/options, editor 
http://www.rebol.net, etc. ;)

CArl it depend how shaped you want the UI ...  people in general 
want to pass the less time possible over the UI ...

Carl, please exlain the 75% app development time.

I think the internal editor has some potential: Multiple docs for 
example could that be easily implemented?

yes, thats cool :)

ie. how exactly is that 75% app time being spent?

do oyu think it is possible to add source-position to values? for 
the ide-version?

Graham: getting GUIs to work perfectly, when they include a lot of 
special features and scrolling, etc, takes too much time.

yes but other things like word colorisation could be very tricky 
 but it's ver usefull ;)

Can any of that work be generalised to be used again?

ah, richt text? :-)

Rich text is on the list to be provided soon.

yes? As proposed - TMD?

I can see that Gateway demo took time ...

maybe with concept like min-face, we could have derived face, which 
could use multiple text and font subobjects, not just one, like current 
face?

Yes, TMD.

Gatewa demo is really nice - always liked it ...

Actually, Gateway demo GUI took no time at all.

I wrote an authoring system and gave it to the artist.

http://shadwolf.free.fr/crimson.jpgis what I use to write rebol 
code and manage it ;)