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Community (was IOS).

 [1/40] from: tbrownell::shaw::ca at: 18-Mar-2002 11:47


Here's a quote from the second article from Jason's IOS post... According to Sassenrath, another complaint he hears often is that REBOL isn't open source. The scripts are open source, but the system itself is not. Sassenrath says that the company plans to release the system one day, but that it needs to age a bit more. While we control it, we can give 100 percent confidence that a script you write on one machine will run on any other machine. Once we open it, that will start to fade." Strangely enough, this hasn't proven to be a problem for the many other languages that have been released openly. " I started using Rebol because it was just so darn easy to learn, and makes great AI. But I find myself referencing other languages more and more when trying to determine how to do something in .R. eg: Need to control some app via API? Let's see how they do it in Perl etc. Of late, I've being reading up on PHP again. Not bad, gots a compiler and everything. It's great if you need dynamic pages with MySQL access, of course, it can't do everything that .R can. But PHP and the other languages out there have something that Rebol doesn't... community, and plenty of it. As an experiment I did various google searches using "n tutorial" (with quotes), with the following page counts ... Java tutorial - 81,600 PHP tutorial - 9,940 C++ tutorial - 9,820 Perl tutorial - 13,600 Rebol tutorial - 42 42? Yes, 42. The problem is the Rebol community, although incredibly savvy and helpful, is just too small. No wonder there's a lack of documentation, simply no one around to create it. I belive this has been recognized by RT, so they've been concentrating on IOS rather than expending on Rebol itself for so few users. (Relatively speaking). Any one "killer app" idea is worth more than the language it is written in. So, if RT is going to just concentrate on apps, then why not offer Pro and command for free? Of course, if View/Pro/Command is making ANY decent money at all, then forget it, but if not, why not. I don't see Rebol growing too quickly given all the options out there that have 2000 times the community, and are free as well. Of course, if it was opened, then the community would grow as well. TB

 [2/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 18-Mar-2002 16:29


<< "Rebol tutorial" - 42 42? Yes, 42. >> 42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :) --Gregg

 [3/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 19-Mar-2002 14:46


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:47:17 -0800 Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> wrote:
> "Java tutorial" - 81,600 > "PHP tutorial" - 9,940 > "C++ tutorial" - 9,820 > "Perl tutorial" - 13,600 > "Rebol tutorial" - 42
This is fun ... java bug 842,000 perl bug 579,000 php bug 1,090,000 C++ bug 497,000 rebol bug 5,090 -- Graham Chiu

 [4/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 19-Mar-2002 20:50


On 19-Mar-02, Terry Brownell wrote:
> So, if RT is going to just concentrate on apps, then why not offer > Pro and command for free? Of course, if View/Pro/Command is making > ANY decent money at all, then forget it, but if not, why not. I > don't see Rebol growing too quickly given all the options out there > that have 2000 times the community, and are free as well. > Of course, if it was opened, then the community would grow as well.
I'm not sure what the difference between open-and-free and closed-and-free would be with regards to REBOL's popularity, but there's a great example of the difference between free and not-free on download.com. Go here... http://download.cnet.com/ enter REBOL in the search engine and this is the result you get... Core - freeware - 2,946 downloads. View - shareware, $49 - 222 downloads. People like free. Personally I would've prefered RT to be selling developers' versions of REBOL with "player" versions for free, (no Console and help and stuff perhaps), but I acknowledge REBOL's a very hard language to work out how to sell. -- Carl Read

 [5/40] from: tim:johnsons-web at: 18-Mar-2002 20:13


* Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> [020318 13:55]:
> Here's a quote from the second article from Jason's IOS post... > "According to Sassenrath, another complaint he hears often is that REBOL
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> this hasn't proven to be a problem for the many other languages that have > been released openly. "
It's probable that when python and mysql went open source, that it increased contributions to the products. Just think, if /core goes open source some perl expatriate might hack the regex engine from perl and put it in rebol. Now that would be a killer! Just dreaming..... -- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com http://www.johnsons-web.com

 [6/40] from: chris:starforge:demon at: 19-Mar-2002 10:29


Graham Chiu wrote:
> This is fun ... > > java bug 842,000
Looks like google can't get access to the java developer connection, according to Sun's bug tracker that should actually be something like (make sure you are sitting down before reading ahead) 4652671 bugs reported (as of 10:30 today..) 4652671 is the latest one I could find - Sun have no "latest 25 bugs" or number of bugs display any more.. probably for a good reason.. Chris -- .------{ http://www.starforge.co.uk }-----. .--------------------------. =[ Explorer2260, Designer and Coder \=\ P: TexMaker, ROACH, site \ =[___You_will_obey_your_corporate_masters___]==[ Stack: EETmTmTRRSS------ ]

 [7/40] from: tbrownell:shaw:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 0:31


If you enclose "rebol bug" in quotes for the boolean effect, you get 6. TB

 [8/40] from: pwoodward:cncdsl at: 19-Mar-2002 9:13


Hmm, but if you take those numbers and use them like so: Java Bugs 842,000 / Java Tutorial 81,600 = 10.32 Rebol Bugs 5,090 / Rebol Tutorial 42 = 121.19 This may not mean any thing - and certainly isn't meant to imply that there are an average of 10.32 bugs per tutorial. But it does give a pretty good idea to the ratio of bugs to tutorials on the 'net. On the flip side, I suspect that any bug counts found by searching may be misleading. Many bug reports are made on mailing lists, or newsgroups which are then mirrored on multiple sites. But, it is interesting to look at. - Porter

 [9/40] from: joel:neely:fedex at: 19-Mar-2002 6:18


Hi, Gregg, All the mice at my house are laughing hysterically... Gregg Irwin wrote:
> << "Rebol tutorial" - 42 > > 42? Yes, 42. >> > > 42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas > Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :) >
-- ; Joel Neely joeldotneelyatfedexdotcom REBOL [] do [ do func [s] [ foreach [a b] s [prin b] ] sort/skip do function [s] [t] [ t: "" foreach [a b] s [repend t [b a]] t ] { | e s m!zauafBpcvekexEohthjJakwLrngohOqrlryRnsctdtiub} 2 ]

 [10/40] from: james:mustard at: 19-Mar-2002 21:31


Graham Chiu wrote:
> This is fun ... > > java bug 842,000 > perl bug 579,000 > php bug 1,090,000 > C++ bug 497,000 > rebol bug 5,090 >
My research also backed up this trend.. java sux 16,600 perl sux 14,300 php sux 33,400 c++ sux 4,620 rebol sux 157 So based on bugs and overall suckiness we should all be learning REBOL and avoiding PHP and Java like the plague? :) heh.

 [11/40] from: tbrownell:shaw:ca at: 19-Mar-2002 10:54


Also from Cnet downloads... Perl2.exe 3.08 Convert Perl scripts to EXE files. License: Shareware Downloads...31,521

 [12/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 19-Mar-2002 22:40


>People like free.
Some things in life are worth paying for.. But not all.
>Personally I would've prefered RT to be selling developers' versions >of REBOL with "player" versions for free, (no Console and help and >stuff perhaps), but I acknowledge REBOL's a very hard language to >work out how to sell.
Me too. I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none. Joanna About rebol itself: After reading Rebol-dummy book i realized that Rebol Core was good for ONE use.. It's excellent tool for automating E-mail addresses harvesting and junk mailing.. Unfortunately my ethics don't allow me to do that.

 [13/40] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 19-Mar-2002 13:32


The most important thing about 42 is the context in which it was evaluated...;-) Steve Shireman The crux of the biscuit, is the 'apostrophe... Frank Zappa Gregg Irwin wrote:

 [14/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 19-Mar-2002 22:01


On 19-Mar-02, Graham Chiu wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:47:17 -0800 > Terry Brownell <[tbrownell--shaw--ca]> wrote:
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> C++ bug 497,000 > rebol bug 5,090
Yeah - Bugs per tutorial...
>> java: 842000 / 81600
== 10.31862745098
>> PHP: 1090000 / 9940
== 109.65794768612
>> C++: 497000 / 9820
== 50.61099796334
>> Perl: 579000 / 13600
== 42.573529411765
>> REBOL: 5090 / 42
== 121.19047619048 REBOL looks less good now Graham. (: -- Carl Read

 [15/40] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 19-Mar-2002 19:23


> java sux 16,600 > perl sux 14,300 > php sux 33,400 > c++ sux 4,620 > rebol sux 157
I played this game for little while yesterday too - using keys such as 'bugs', 'docs', 'help', 'crash', 'fun', 'how-to', etc. If well correlated, it _might_ really reveal something interesting, but probably about google more than the languages you want to compare, especially Rebol. Why? One thing which makes rebol different is that .r files are largely invisible to google searches Try finding index.r for example. The whole idea of publishing to rebsites and by extension IOS, is that one uses globally propagated Internet protocols to support custom community networks and thus new group-level interoperability. The normal web 'invisibility' of REBOL is superb catch-22 in this sense. A strange early victim of its own success. This is also why I suspect it can be hard to find timely rebol help, because lots of cool rebol examples and source are not visible to google. Someone posted a rebol/view find script not long ago. But rebol needs a built-in set of find functions like RedHat did for rpm and when they added RedHatNetwork stuff also. As the web space gets increasingly polluted with pop-up spam, this invisibility seems like it should/could be real selling point. But it needs better bridges so that people can hide or reveal rebol better according to their needs. At present Rebol offers but not quite yet delivers a viable alternative to ordinary HTML life. What features are missing? - The desktop of /View does not include any useful ways to search or sort among rebsites. - No option to list rebsites other than icon array. No detailed list mode. The idea of rebsites starts off great, but seem to have been abandoned by /View When you roll over the mouse on rebsite icons you get a line of text. That shows the potential, but it is not well used. A few bytes can go a long way when they give people relevant information BEFORE they click and maintain some state AFTER. Almost all the problems with HTML for community building come down to the lack of persistence and the fact that http is stateless..Thus cookies, server sessions etc etc. Rebol delivers persistence and state. Rebol/View knows how to check first in its cache before trying the Internet. But imo this wonderful idea is not really followed though to its next logical steps. - No update or 'visited' visual iconographics.You have no way of even knowing which rebsite you have already looked, which noes have new material, etc.. Rebol seems made for this, but in effect the only resource we have is this is mailing list and even then the only way to find anything is to do some funky search though mailing list archives. Time-consuming. It would be good if rebsites could give any kind of indication of their activity level. That would allow rapid browsing and sorting of sites, propagation of new ideas etc. Community building of a new kind. - There is no built-in way to group or label rebsites, other than to write ones own index.r files with more rebsite links. But these will soon be hard to maintain as they are static. This goes against the splendid potential in Rebol for emergent adaptive networking using "fast, cheap and out-of-control" strategies. I wish default /View desktop would encourage better default access and use of rebsites, and rebol data. As has been pointed out rebol data and programs are only a matter of perspective. In any event is strikes me that with REBOL/View and some smart use of Rugby integrated into every /View installation, all the above could be answered. Maybe I am just too ignorant still of IOS, its desktop and publish functions. Does it already fix all these problems?? ./Jason

 [16/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 19-Mar-2002 16:49


Hi Joanna, << I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none. >> For non-commercial use, you can use View (not View/Pro), can't you? --Gregg

 [17/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 20-Mar-2002 12:30


> I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and > easy to install > runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there > was none.
As I and others have mentioned, perhaps RT should look at a mechanism for freely encaping freeware View reblets to help spread the message. -- Graham Chiu

 [18/40] from: koopmans:itr:ing:nl at: 19-Mar-2002 10:28


On Tuesday 19 March 2002 00:29, you wrote:
> << "Rebol tutorial" - 42 > > 42? Yes, 42. >> > > 42!! OK, don't anybody write ANY MORE tutorials for REBOL! (all you Douglas > Adams fans out there know what I'm talking about. :) >
Exactly! SO REBOL IS THE ANSWER. And we worship in silence.... --Maarten

 [19/40] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 19-Mar-2002 11:18


yes I know, 6 * 7, exactly ;-)

 [20/40] from: carl:cybercraft at: 20-Mar-2002 20:00


On 20-Mar-02, Graham Chiu wrote:
>> I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and >> easy to install
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> mechanism for freely encaping freeware View reblets to help > spread the message.
Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right? And don't our nice tiny little scripts suddenly grow into 400k+ band-width using monsters? What I'd like to be able to do is encrypt a script (or part of one) and have REBOL check for a key when it encounters such a script and only decrypt and run it if the key is the right key for the script. No doubt we can do this with Pro's built-in encryption, but it'd then require those using our scripts to have paid for Pro as well. Would encryption expand a script's size by much? -- Carl Read

 [21/40] from: pwoodward:cncdsl at: 20-Mar-2002 8:51


All - what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on how much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a relatively trivial process. Just setup the server to serve index.r, index.html, index.htm, etc. In that order. Now - you may ask - what happens when a plain-jane web browser hits that index.r? Well, unless we have a standard way of detecting the requestor (e.g. browser type) and taking the appropriate action, it won't do us much good. So every index.r (or other publicly accessible rebol page) should probably do a quick check to see if it's being requested by a REBOL client - if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand. Something about this being a "Rebol Powered" site - and needing REBOL to function - not unlike a Flash site. Now, this could be annoying to some - but the presupposition is that we're not going to be stuck with browsers forever. - Porter

 [22/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 20-Mar-2002 10:16


From: "Porter Woodward"
> All - > > what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on
how
> much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve > index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> good. So every index.r (or other publicly accessible rebol page) should > probably do a quick check to see if it's being requested by a REBOL
client -
> if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably > print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand.
... Hi, Porter, A file contaning something like the following works on my wife's website. IE opens it as a webpage. /View opens the embedded REBOL script. <html> Hello, World! <!-- [ rebol[] view layout [text "Hello, World!"] ] --> </html> That is a very clever idea that you have. I don't know why it wasn't more obvious earlier. --Scott Jones

 [23/40] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 20-Mar-2002 11:55


Porter Woodward <[pwoodward--cncdsl--com]> wrote:
> what about making index.r files visible to search engines? Depending on how > much control over your web server you have, it could be easy to serve > index.r as the default for directories. Apache and IIS make this a > relatively trivial process. Just setup the server to serve index.r, > index.html, index.htm, etc. In that order.
Yes. In Apache you use the DirectoryIndex directive: DirectoryIndex index.html index.htm index.shtml index.php index.r I have not played around with the order yet. Experimenting now with substituting all my index.html files with index.r files so that folders become 'smart', creating self indexing links. When new stuff is uploaded into them, index.r is always uptodate since its dynamic. This is so trivial to do but immediately opens up some interesting options for self maintaining web sites. Next is include some metadata files in each folder which the index.r files can use. For example about.txt [description] use.r [local file tracking access] etc What I really want is something in REBOL which works a little like Zope's powerful 'acquistion' without the voodoo baggage of Zope. For those that don't know, Zope is a server side content management system writetn in Python. It is thus highly object-oriented and adaptable, using URL paths to access a 2-way web object model. http://someserver.com/topfolder/subfolder/english/graphic/afile.html In Zope, this might be a regular URL descending the default hierarchical file structure tree, but it might also be combined with methods which change the context namespace before rendering the file "afile.html". In the URL above, english muight be subfolder or it might be script to render in that langauge. graphic might a zope method to enable thumbnails etc. graphic might in fact live at the top level in the Zope object hierachy. Meaning it need only be defined once and everything 'below' can access or acquire it. In Zope the traverasl searach starts at the bottom [end of the URL path] and looks up to its parent to ask "do you have a methiod called 'graphic'?" If yes then it uses that one, ie the first one it finds. If no then it asks its parent and so on. The result is site-wide shared functions which can be implemented by putting methods at the top level. A single change to one method script can alter all refrencesw to it across a site. Very powerful. These can be overloaded, customized by inserting variations of the same name anywhere in the hierachy. This allows local contexts to be changed modularly while allowing common code and embedded method calls to remain the same. What strategies in REBOL can we use so that each index.r maintain itsef easily? It could be something very simple. An index.r is either a "parent" or not. If enabled as a parent a script will return its code when any child asks for it, else it will ask up the hierachy to find a parent. In practice once can populate a site with empty index.r scripts [the default]. All they know to do is ask for a parent script. when they find it they run the code locally at their level. Any tmie you want to customize, just add implicit or inherited behavior.. I am thinking out loud here, so please jump in. REBOL seems ideal for implementing all sorts of genetically inspired adaptive designs, including for simple but powerful inter-website programming. Vanilla already offers many wonderful features in a very elegant model of its own.
> Now - you may ask - what happens when a plain-jane web browser hits that > index.r? Well, unless we have a standard way of detecting the requestor
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> if so it should just hand over the code. Otherwise, it should probably > print some nice HTML message for older browsers to understand.
Good idea. How do you check if it's being requested by a REBOL client?
> Something about this being a "Rebol Powered" site - and needing REBOL to > function - not unlike a Flash site. Now, this could be annoying to some - > but the presupposition is that we're not going to be stuck with browsers > forever.
Yes. Also rebol scripts can be embedded within HTML. How many people have played around with this feature? ./Jason

 [24/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 8:07


> Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right? > And don't our > nice tiny little scripts suddenly grow into 400k+ > band-width using > monsters?
One of the points was to make it easy to run a script without having to install the interpreter separately. One would provide the encapped Windows version, and a source code version. -- Graham Chiu

 [25/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 8:03


> <html> > Hello, World!
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> --> > </html>
Hi Scott, I was looking at something similar early last year when I was writing Vidwiki. I have embedded Vid code in my home page which is hidden within <layout> ... </layout> tags, and only displayable by a View program. The web server (Zope) dynamically serves up HTML and VID on the same page. There's a small reblet sites/compkarori2/rbrowser that displays the marked up parts of the page. I got distracted by Vidwiki and forgot that I still had it there :( But to be usable, I needed a table style which still doesn't exist in the wild. -- Graham Chiu

 [26/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 20-Mar-2002 15:43


From: "Graham Chiu" ...
> I have embedded Vid code in my home page which is hidden > within <layout> ... </layout> tags, and only displayable by > a View program. The web server (Zope) dynamically serves up > HTML and VID on the same page.
... For those desiring "direct links" in email: http://www.compkarori.com or http://www.compkarori.co.nz which both redirect to: http://203.79.82.38/ ...
> There's a small reblet > > sites/compkarori2/rbrowser > > that displays the marked up parts of the page.
It took me a moment to grok (1) what was going on, but now I get it.
> I got distracted by Vidwiki and forgot that I still had it > there :(
I sure am glad that *I* never get distracted. :-) Uh, what was I just writing about?
> But to be usable, I needed a table style which still doesn't > exist in the wild.
That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could envision a "table" style being similar to the "list" style, with some sort of supply definition, or something, for the fields. I wish I had time to kick that idea around a bit. I'll leave my little test page on my wife's site for a day or two, for those curious to see what it looks like. WWW browse over to: http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html then, at REBOL/View console: do http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html Thanks for the additional input. BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of the woods? --Scott Jones (1) grok: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/grok.html

 [27/40] from: a:none:email:it at: 20-Mar-2002 19:15


How do you view the "View" part of the page? I was unable to run it inside of View. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: G. Scott Jones <[gscottjones--mchsi--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:43 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Community (was IOS).
> From: "Graham Chiu" > ...
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> > exist in the wild. > That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could envision a
table
> style being similar to the "list" style, with some sort of supply > definition, or something, for the fields. I wish I had time to kick that > idea around a bit. > > I'll leave my little test page on my wife's site for a day or two, for
those
> curious to see what it looks like. > WWW browse over to:
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Le maglie con il numero e il nome dei tuoi campioni, sono sul Milanstore Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=313&d=21-3

 [28/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Mar-2002 20:13


On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:43:18 -0600 "G. Scott Jones" <[gscottjones--mchsi--com]> wrote:
> That does seem like it would be useful at times. I could > envision a "table"
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> time to kick that > idea around a bit.
It would be very nice if layouts automatically resized correctly by themselves. Perhaps when Glass returns ...
> BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of > the woods? >
Insomnia again :( -- Graham Chiu

 [29/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 21-Mar-2002 11:39


At 08:07 21.3.2002 +1200, you wrote:
> > Encapped scripts are not cross-platform though, right? > > And don't our
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>One would provide the encapped Windows version, and a source >code version.
Yes, please. This would make it ideal for my use.. Easy and hassle free for windows end-users and full flexibility to other platforms. And just one program (encapsulator) to buy. That would be clean and easilly managed solution. Assuming those encapsulated programs need no 'per cpu licenses' anymore. Joanna

 [30/40] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 21-Mar-2002 11:29


At 16:49 19.3.2002 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Joanna, > ><< I could use it if there were free (or very cheap) and easy to install >runtime for my View.programs. Last time I checked there was none. >> > >For non-commercial use, you can use View (not View/Pro), can't you?
My problem is, those View.based helper programs I was hoping to made would be used to configure/monitor our commercially available embedded systems. As these controllers have ethernet connectivity, it would be nice to give some nice and easy gui tools. Somehow I belive I can't claim these scipts 'non-commercial' even If we didn't bill our clients (and their clients and end-users) separately for these utilities. We do have some Java programs... they work but I don't like way java handles things. And some text mode programs, but we need to keep multiple binaries for all different systems.. Not good. One more thing on View. How easy it's reconfigure View so that it can be only used to start these premade scripts we provide... I'm looking for easy launchpad for end-users. They have no interest on programming and too many options can be confusing and get into way. Joanna PS: I do hw designing for living.. I'm not prof programmer..

 [31/40] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 21-Mar-2002 11:41


Hi Graham, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Chiu" <[gchiu--compkarori--co--nz]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:13 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Community (was IOS). ....It would be very nice if layouts automatically resized
> correctly by themselves. Perhaps when Glass returns ... >
try: do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/resize.r This is just a result of 2 hours of experimenting. But I want to improve it in the near future... Simmilar(and better) resize handler should be implemented in the next View IMO. Regards, Cyphre

 [32/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 21-Mar-2002 6:06


On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:43:18 -0600 G. Scott Jones ... wrote: ...
> > BTW isn't awfully early in the morning in your neck of > > the woods?
From: "Graham Chiu"
> Insomnia again :(
Bummer. --Scott Jones

 [33/40] from: gscottjones:mchsi at: 21-Mar-2002 6:00


From: "Adrian"
> How do you view the "View" part of the > page? I was unable to run it inside of View.
Hi, Adrian, If you start-up REBOL/View in the Desktop mode, then click the console icon. Then type the following line, including the word "do". do http://www.midwestgypsy.com/hello.html If you wish to return to the Desktop, then type "desktop". Hope that helps. --Scott Jones

 [34/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Mar-2002 10:52


Hi Joanna, << One more thing on View. How easy it's reconfigure View so that it can be only used to start these premade scripts we provide... I'm looking for easy launchpad for end-users. They have no interest on programming and too many options can be confusing and get into way. >> It's easy enough to write a script to do that. Configuring the View desktop could be done by modifying index.r, bookmarks.r, and services.r. Here's a little launcher script, which requires View/Pro in order to use CALL. Watch for word wrap. REBOL [] rebol-exe: to-string to-local-file system/options/boot to-call-str: func [f [file!]] [to-string to-local-file f] run-script: func [s] [call rejoin [rebol-exe " " s]] run: func [cmd /in dir] [ if in [change-dir dir] call cmd ] view lay: layout [ origin 0x0 backdrop sky effect [gradcol 0x1 80.80.80 32.32.32] space 6x0 style ctl vtext ctl "View Ref" [run-script %/c/rebol/_view/public/www.rebol.com/view/docs/view-ref.r] ctl "Easy VID" [run-script %/c/rebol/_view/public/www.rebol.com/view/demos/easy-vid.r] ctl "VID Notes" [run-script %/c/rebol/_view/public/www.codeconscious.com/rebsite/vid-notes.r] ctl "Easy Draw" [run-script %/c/rebol/_view/public/www.nwlink.com/~ecotope1/reb/easy-draw.r] ctl "Core" [run/in to-call-str %/c/rebol/_core/rebol %/c/rebol/_core/] ctl "View" [call to-call-str %/c/rebol/_view/rebol] ctl "Shell" [call "cmd.exe"] ctl "Quit" [quit] ] --Gregg

 [35/40] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 22-Mar-2002 8:39


On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:41:23 +0100 "Cyphre" <[cyphre--seznam--cz]> wrote:
> try: do http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/resize.r > This is just a result of 2 hours of experimenting. But I
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> in the next View > IMO.
Nice, and I agree. View does some things very easily, but inexplicably, others are so tedious. -- Graham Chiu

 [36/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 10:47


Eheh. I dropped a cruicial change before posting. run-script: function [url] [file] [ if exists? file: path-thru url [ replace/all file " " " " call probe rejoin [rebol-exe " " to-local-file file] ] ] Sorry to distract from the essential point being that one can have a customised display to users. Brett.

 [37/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 10:27


Hi Gregg, Nice demo. I was chuffed to see vid-notes mentioned too :^) I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a command line switch to specify a specific script. So one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have something that can call other programs. The other thing is I'd like to help ensure the example works on various of installations. So I modified it to use path-thru and urls. Modified script below. Regards, Brett REBOL [] rebol-exe: to-string to-local-file system/options/boot to-call-str: func [f [file!]] [to-string to-local-file f] run-script: function [url] [file] [ if exists? file: path-thru url [ call rejoin [rebol-exe " " to-local-file file] ] ] run: func [cmd /in dir] [ if in [change-dir dir] call cmd ] view lay: layout [ origin 0x0 backdrop sky effect [gradcol 0x1 80.80.80 32.32.32] space 6x0 style ctl vtext ctl "View Ref" [run-script http://www.rebol.com/view/docs/view-ref.r] ctl "Easy VID" [run-script http://www.rebol.com/view/demos/easy-vid.r] ctl "VID Notes" [run-script http://www.codeconscious.com/rebsite/vid-notes.r] ctl "Easy Draw" [run-script http://www.nwlink.com/~ecotope1/reb/easy-draw.r] ctl "Core" [run/in to-call-str %/c/rebol/_core/rebol %/c/rebol/_core/] ctl "View" [call to-call-str system/options/boot] ctl "Shell" [call "cmd.exe"] ctl "Quit" [quit] ]

 [38/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 21-Mar-2002 23:17


Hi Brett, << I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a command line switch to specify a specific script. So one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have something that can call other programs. >> Sorry, I'm in some kind of fog here. This isn't clicking in my head. I know I should know what you're saying, but I don't. :) << The other thing is I'd like to help ensure the example works on various of installations. So I modified it to use path-thru and urls. Modified script below. >> Excellent! Thanks very much for that. --Gregg

 [39/40] from: brett:codeconscious at: 22-Mar-2002 21:52


> << I just want to draw out of your example that you can start View using a > command line switch to specify a specific script. So > one does not need View/Pro to start a specific script as long as you have > something that can call other programs. >> > > Sorry, I'm in some kind of fog here. This isn't clicking in my head. I
know
> I should know what you're saying, but I don't. :)
Well that would be my fault for not being clear. You said you need View/Pro. I was pointing out that you don't - you could use a batch file or another program that can start another process - ie call View with command line argument. Though if it commercial then I guess you may as well use View/Pro. Just thinking about it. Another thing that could be done is to modify the user.r file and call a custom script directly, a script like your example, and then quit after the call. Brett.

 [40/40] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 22-Mar-2002 9:47


Hi Brett, << I was pointing out that you don't - you could use a batch file or another program that can start another process - ie call View with command line argument. >> Ahh, yes. I was thinking inside the box. :) << Just thinking about it. Another thing that could be done is to modify the user.r file and call a custom script directly, a script like your example, and then quit after the call. >> Probably so. --Gregg

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