REBOL [REBOL.org] Packages announcement and competition
[1/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 19-Feb-2004 16:27
We're close to completing an enhancement to the REBOL.org Script Library that will enable *packages* -- a package is anything other than a simple script (which is all the Library has been able to handle so far). I'd like to enlist the List in the final bit of cross-platform testing -- just to make sure what gets uploaded is downloadable and runnable across the full range of platforms that REBOL inhabits. There is one test package up on the Library. If you've got the time, could you please download it, see if it runs, and let me know what goes wrong. To download the package, cut'n'paste this into a console window: do/args http://www.rebol.org/library/public/lds-package-downloader.r lds-demo1-package.r The downloader should work under both Core and View, but it looks a lot prettier (and offers more options) under View. The demo package runs only under View. It should take no more than three minutes on a 56K modem to download the files. As a tiny encouragement to you to do this, the demo package is a "guess the REBOL developer" competition.... .....The first person back here with the right answer (and what platform they used) wins the prize! The application gives you details of the prize, but as an additional incentive, I can tell you that I once lent it to Bill Gates!! (see small print at end for disclaimers). Even if you don't enter the competition, please let me know how you get on with this. Once we're happy that it works, we'll open the Library up so that any Library member can contribute packages. Thanks to Andreas and Jeff for some code incorporated in this development. Thanks a lot! Sunanda [Small print. Bill Gates is a double-glazing installer in the south of England. No relation to the other windows purveyor in Redmond, Wa. Though he does find himself getting unexpected upgrades on airline tickets]
[2/26] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 19-Feb-2004 16:40
by package, you mean a named group of files? -MAx --- You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution, but in the end, being part of the problem is much more fun.
[3/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 19-Feb-2004 16:45
> by package, you mean a named group of files?
Mainly that,yes -- any application that needs more than one script to work. But it could also be an encapped script (or other binary format) that is uploaded for use on one or more platforms -- there'd be more than one file, but only one for each platform, Sunanda.
[4/26] from: ammon:addept:ws at: 19-Feb-2004 16:55
You did call this "Guess" the REBOL Developer Competition so I will guess... Image1.jpg is Andrew Image4.jpg is Volker image7.jpg is Gregg image5.jpg is Sunanda It ran beautifully on windozeXP albeit, the downloader UI could use quite a bit of help. ;~> Enjoy!! ~~Ammon ;~>
[5/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 19-Feb-2004 19:11
Hi Ammon, Thanks for trying it out!
> You did call this "Guess" the REBOL Developer Competition so I will guess... > > Image1.jpg is Andrew > Image4.jpg is Volker > image7.jpg is Gregg > image5.jpg is Sunanda
Pretty good! Three exactly right! One wrong.
> It ran beautifully on windozeXP albeit, the downloader UI could use quite
> bit of help. ;~>
Thanks for the feedback. I've been concentrating more on the other aspects of the project. The downloader was almost an afterthought. What would you want changed in the UI? (Making up the rules as I go along: you can have another go if you answer the above question :-) ) Good luck! Sunanda.
[6/26] from: atruter:labyrinth:au at: 20-Feb-2004 11:48
Runs OK on Win2000, with the following minor issues: 1. "Change folder" uses the Windows File selector which dosn't actually let you select a folder 2. "Help" uses Browse which dosn't work by default with REBOL/View 3. A progress bar, of the downloading n of x type, would be nice Apart from that, works well. My take on the images, using perceived age / personality as the guiding principle, is: Image1.jpg is Sunanda Image2.jpg is Andrew image5.jpg is Gregg image7.jpg is Volker Regards, Ashley
[7/26] from: atruter:labyrinth:au at: 20-Feb-2004 11:53
> Hi Ammon, > ... > Pretty good! > > Three exactly right! One wrong.
Boy, did I miss by a mile and a half! ;) Regards, Ashley
[8/26] from: ammon:addept:ws at: 19-Feb-2004 18:04
Well to start with, I don't like the basic layout. It is quite disorganized (IMO). I would start by getting rid of the left column, putting the change folder button to the right of the install folder field and changing the text to "Browse..." Next I get rid of the exit button, it seems quite pointless to me, if it is necisarry for some systems then put it at the bottom of the window with the help and download buttons. Then I would have it automatically "View Files" and put the View Files button to the right of the Script-name field. Something like the Messages field is usually seen as a Status Bar at the bottom of the window. The colors in package info pane are very tacky, use something more standard. I would put the User Notes INFO below "User Notes". Change the Filename INFO to a CODE style. Align the "Notes" VH1 with the download check mark and change the INFO to TEXT. Change the Size INFO to CODE. That should make it a pretty good UI, now change Sunanda to image2.jpg... Enjoy!! ~~Ammon ;~> ----- Original Message ----- From: <[SunandaDH--aol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL [REBOL.org] Re: Packages announcement and competition
[9/26] from: rgaither:triad:rr at: 19-Feb-2004 20:07
On Feb 19, 2004, at 4:27 PM, [SunandaDH--aol--com] wrote:
> We're close to completing an enhancement to the REBOL.org Script > Library that
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>> across the full > range of platforms that REBOL inhabits.
Mac OS X 10.3.2 (Panther). Core 188.8.131.52.4
> There is one test package up on the Library. If you've got the time, > could > you please download it, see if it runs, and let me know what goes > wrong.
Worked fine - no problems. A little correction for the following text though - Running under Core, it will attempt to download all the files in the package the current folder. Should be - Running under Core, it will attempt to download all the files in the package to the current folder. Missing the word "to".
> The downloader should work under both Core and View, but it looks a lot > prettier (and offers more options) under View. The demo package runs
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>> "guess the > REBOL developer" competition....
Sorry, can't play on my platform... (Just teasing, couldn't resist a little jab! :-))
> Once we're happy that it works, we'll open the Library up so that any > Library > member can contribute packages. > > Thanks to Andreas and Jeff for some code incorporated in this > development.
Excellent option, thanks guys. Rod. Rod Gaither [rgaither--triad--rr--com] Oak Ridge, NC USA
[10/26] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 19-Feb-2004 21:18
> -----Original Message----- > From: [SunandaDH--aol--com] [mailto:[SunandaDH--aol--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>> simple script > (which is all the Library has been able to handle so far).
view version works on NT 4.0 btw, I realized that there was no more rebol.org rebsite... maybe you guys could just include the one or two little apps you've got for the rebol.org site there... really. don't forget that there are newbies everyday and that some actually do use the desktop as it is explained in the docs. now if only RT would remove all the old sites! it really would make the desktop usefull once again... maybe even add a mechanism so that a site is sent to an 'old directory if the owner of a site does not answer to a mail, the server sends every month... this would remove old sites... and it might be doable even without changing the actual application... otherwise this is something that should be done for v1.3 at least... what do you guys think? its not a big deal... -MAx
[11/26] from: brett:codeconscious at: 20-Feb-2004 16:57
The current directory option did exactly as I said though I probably would have like a new directory to be created by default. Otherwise it did pretty well! As for the competition - Gregg => Image6 Regards, Brett ----- Original Message ----- > Thanks for trying it out!
[12/26] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 20-Feb-2004 7:01
Good job, the download GUI needs a bit polishing but the concept is nice. I couldn't select a new directory though on WInXP with the Command SDK. --Maarten
[13/26] from: ingo::2b1::de at: 20-Feb-2004 8:46
Hi Sunanda, it works here REBOL/View 184.108.40.206.2 3-Aug-2002 (on Debian/Gnu Linux). The UI could do with a bit of a cleanup, as already mentioned, though ;^) Kind regards, Ingo
[14/26] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 20-Feb-2004 9:36
[SunandaDH--aol--com] wrote.. apparently on 19-Feb-2004/16:27:30
>There is one test package up on the Library. If you've got the time, could >you please download it, see if it runs, and let me know what goes wrong.
I tried changing the directory and realised I couldn't select a directory, so cancelled, and "none" appeared. I tried typing in a directory but that didn't work and I couldn't see a way to activate the download. Quit and tried again accepting the defaults, and this time it "worked".
>As a tiny encouragement to you to do this, the demo package is a "guess the >REBOL developer" competition....
Okay, that fedex carton there is clearly a red herring since Joel Neely is not one of the developers! Has the download process introduced lots of jpg artifacting?? :) -- Graham Chiu http://www.compkarori.com/cerebrus
[15/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 20-Feb-2004 5:28
Thanks for all the comments everyone. It's been very helpful. Apologies for not replying to them all individually. Apologies also for the problems with the downloader.... --It's written to work with View 1.2.1 specifically so it wouldn't use any esoteric words. But that version (or later) obviously isn't as universal as I'd thought. I'll go back one more version and try again. --I've fixed a few of the bugs (typos, and assuming browse was available) Thanks too for all the comments on the UI. I'll have a go at making some changes over the weekend. Graham:
> Has the download process introduced lots of jpg artifacting?? :)
I hope not! Image7 and image8 are fairly poor in that way in the original. The others should be reasonable. Let me know if they aren't. Rod:
>Sorry, can't play on my platform...
You should still be able to enter the competition view the 8 images and read the notes.txt file. And it's not too late, because: The competition is still open! No winner yet. Here's a summary of the entries so far: Ammon:
> Image1.jpg is Andrew > Image4.jpg is Volker > image7.jpg is Gregg > image5.jpg is Sunanda
Pretty good! Three exactly right! One wrong. Ashley:
> Image1.jpg is Sunanda > Image2.jpg is Andrew > image5.jpg is Gregg > image7.jpg is Volker
Not bad -- you picked four people with strong IT skills. But only two of them are REBOL developers. And you didn't match the images to the names. Ammon:
> change Sunanda to > image2.jpg...
> Image1.jpg is Andrew > Image4.jpg is Volker > image7.jpg is Gregg > image2.jpg is Sunanda
Sorry! That's two exactly right, and two wrong. Brett:
> As for the competition - Gregg => Image6
We need all four for the big prize. I think there must be enough clues there for someone to crack it. Thanks again everyone, Sunanda.
[16/26] from: didec:tiscali at: 20-Feb-2004 13:03
Re: REBOL [REBOL.org] Packages announcement and competition I have ran the script with View 1.2.40 and it works. Same comment than other about the UI, or the req-dir func. My answer : image1 : Andrew (for sure) image6 : Volker image4 : Gregg image5 : Sunanda DideC
[17/26] from: brett:codeconscious at: 20-Feb-2004 23:13
> Brett: > > As for the competition - Gregg => Image6 > We need all four for the big prize.
Damn, I quoted it but didn't make it explicit that I was modifying Ammon's response. So here it is again - just in case I get to fix my entry image1.jpg - Andrew image4.jpg - Volker image5.jpg - Sunanda image6.jpg - Gregg And in case that was right. image2 - Peter image3 - John Slattery image7 - Trebor image8 - Sir David Ramsbotham Regards, Brett.
[18/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 20-Feb-2004 7:40
> image1 : Andrew (for sure) > image6 : Volker > image4 : Gregg > image5 : Sunanda
Close! Congratulations, you've correctly spotted all four REBOL developers. But two names match, and two don't. Hi Brett: Congratulations! 100% right!! Email me an address and your prize will be on its way. I've updated the package to change the text. If anyone wants to try to download it again to the same folder, it should just retrieve the notes.txt file. Please let me know if it doesn't. Thanks again everyone, Sunanda.
[19/26] from: brett:codeconscious at: 21-Feb-2004 0:40
> Congratulations! 100% right!! Email me an address and your prize will be
> its way.
Whooohooo! Thanks to Ammon who nutted most of it out. And just a few more words of thanks, I'd just like to thank my wife, my mum, my dad, my friends, .... ahem.... For the prize, while I would be most honored and gratified to receive such a magnificent gift, I fear the international voyage this valuable item would take could be perilous and so it would enough for me if you could find it an alternative worthy home. Perhaps a local computing museum? :-)
> I've updated the package to change the text. If anyone wants to try to > download it again to the same folder, it should just retrieve the
> Please let me know if it doesn't.
Listed and downloaded the one item successfully. Regards, Brett.
[20/26] from: robert:muench:robertmuench at: 20-Feb-2004 17:51
On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:45:25 EST, <[SunandaDH--aol--com]> wrote:
>> by package, you mean a named group of files? > > Mainly that,yes -- any application that needs more than one script to > work.
Hi, than why not name it: fileset like it is on IOS? I don't like word-fragmentation ;-) Robert
[21/26] from: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 20-Feb-2004 11:22
Hi Sunanda, as you told the downloader did its job very well even under Core 2.3 and View 1.2.1 running Win 98 while the demo ran only under View. Under Core no real file seems to be saved on disk but the downloader script worked since I got this screen indicating a try to exec the DEMO :
>> do/args http://www.rebol.org/library/public/lds-package-downloader.r"lds-demo1-package.r"
connecting to: www.rebol.org Script: "Library data services: Download package files" (16-Feb-2004) ** Script Error: view? has no value. ** Where: if view? [ lds-styles: stylize [ info: info black 172.200.234 font-size 11 h1: text black 172.200.234 font-size 15 h2: text black 172.200.234 font-size 13 p: text black 172.200.234 font-size 13 notes: text-list black 100.200.200 font-size 13 hr: box 600x2 blue ] ] lds-dp: make
rebol.exe ropus.r under View I got the ending message "The package is fully downloaded" and all files were downloaded into the current DIR as I tried it first and then it was OK too when dumped into a second newly created folder. The old Select File requester appeared (View 1.2.1) and I then asked myself how to create a new folder since no new button appeared and I mustr admit I never found how-to (simply type the new name and SELECT it as for any other file to select just don't do the job - with or without the trailing /)... While the download was occuring, I also attempted to review the names of files that had to be downloaded but I could no more scroll the list - can it be enhanced (unlocked) or is View freezing the displayed faces when it works downloading files? The Online Help goes browsing the rebol.org web site and appropriately displays the needed HELP info. Finally the DEMO script runs first class. Great work guys ! Congratulations for all your contributive efforts ... I really appreciate the resulting products set !!! Regards, Gerard P.S. For the contest I must admit I would have not guessed right in 3 of 4 cases and even then I already saw Andrew's snapshot before do if I want to play fair I got 0 of 4 cases ;-)
[22/26] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 20-Feb-2004 16:03
Hi Sunanda, Thanks very much for the service. Plarform: WIN95/98 Does'nt run under Rebol/core 220.127.116.11.1 Runs' under Rebol/view 18.104.22.168.1
[23/26] from: SunandaDH:aol at: 21-Feb-2004 11:55
A few points I'd overlooked earlier in this thread: MAx:
> btw, I realized that there was no more rebol.org rebsite... > maybe you guys could just include the one or two little apps you've > got for the rebol.org site there... really.
Doing a REBOL.org rebsite is, I'm sure, going to happen one day. It would clearly make sense as a fourth way of accessing the REBOL.org content... The other three being: 1. from a web browser http://www.rebol.org 2. from the downloaded desktop Library application http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/download-librarian.r 3. from within any REBOL application using Library Data Services http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/rebol/documentation.r?script=lds-local.r I'll make sure it is on the list of Things to Do, but no promises on when :-) -- Brett:
> For the prize, while I would be most honored and gratified to > receive such a magnificent gift, I fear the international voyage > this valuable item would take could be perilous and so it would > enough for me if you could find it an alternative worthy home. > Perhaps a local computing museum? :-)
Given I got it second hand from a thrift shop, it probably lacks serious collectability for a museum....Maybe we'll have another competition sometime, and I'll reoffer it as something once briefly owned by Brett. Now that should give it some serious kudos :-) -- Robert:
> Hi, than why not name it: fileset like it is on IOS? I don't like > word-fragmentation ;-)
Choosing the right words for things is very important, I agree. Apologies if I've not choose exactly the right one. But "package" has a venerable history in this context -- at least 40 years, I'd guess. And fileset is not quite right either. An IOS fileset will synchronise both ways (you change the file, I get a new copy. I change the file, you get a new copy). A package is dumber than that. If I change a file in a package I own, the next time you download it, you will get the new copy. But, whatever you do to that copy -- short of emailing it to me -- I won't even know. The synchronisation is one way only. But yes, the IT world has way too many words for things that are almost the same. When I do mainframe work, I talk about "data sets whose content lives on DASD and are updated via access methods". When I work in REBOL it's "files on a hard disk updated via ports". Of course, a data set is not the same as a file, DASD is a wider concept than hard disk, and an access method is not the same as a port. But they are close enough not to really need different words. Sunanda
[24/26] from: atruter:labyrinth:au at: 22-Feb-2004 10:43
> But yes, the IT world has way too many words for things that are > almost the same.
One of my favourite quotes (of unknown origin) is, "The great thing about standards in this industry are that there are so many to choose from." Regards Ashley
[25/26] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 23-Feb-2004 12:36
mine was microsoft saying this in the win 3.x days We are developping a -NEW- standard I always tought it reflected M$ view on the industry. -MAx --- You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution, but in the end, being part of the problem is much more fun.
[26/26] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 23-Feb-2004 12:39
actually, I meant something WAY simpler. just a page which you can open the rebol.org tools from, package downloader and librarien. plus a few links to preset rebol.org web searches or pages of interest. seems easy enough to do in one hour ? -MAx --- You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution, but in the end, being part of the problem is much more fun.
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