REBOL/View

[1/54] from: rphilipp:suffolk:lib:ny:us at: 14-Jan-2001 17:39

I'm on a server that's running Debian Linux - Does anyone what OS version of REBOL/View I'll need to run on this version of Linux? Thanks, Robert P.

[2/54] from: chris:starforge:demon at: 15-Jan-2001 11:58

Robert Philippe wrote:

> I'm on a server that's running Debian Linux - Does anyone what OS version of > REBOL/View I'll need to run on this version of Linux?

Which version of Debian? If it's a fairly up to date distro you probably want the Linux, libc6, iX86 version. I'd also advise getting the xper rather than the release version - ISTR that the release version has issues on some systems. Chris -- New sig in the works Explorer2260 Designer and Coder http://www.starforge.co.uk

[3/54] from: rphilipp:suffolk:lib:ny:us at: 15-Jan-2001 8:16

I'll give that a try Chris, But don't the xper loose functionality after a while? Robert P.

[4/54] from: ptretter:norcom2000 at: 27-Mar-2001 18:06

View is now expired on Win platform. :( Paul Tretter

[5/54] from: carl:rebol at: 28-Mar-2001 10:30

About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View and its future. We came up with an excellent solution that provides a free version of View that is upgradable to a professional version that includes a few additional components, such as command shell, library access, and encryption. The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users who want it. Of course, our hope is that all of you will want to buy the View/Pro product. And, that you would convince your friends, companies, comrades, and neighbors to buy it too. We need that to happen! Tell everyone. I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes. Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week. Please let us know your thoughts. REBOL as always, -Carl

[6/54] from: vincenke:ohsu at: 28-Mar-2001 12:33

I'm currently using the ODBC functionality of Command for some fairly simple database routines. With a View-like front-end, we could GREATLY expand our use of Command and/or other Rebol products.

[7/54] from: doug:vos:eds at: 28-Mar-2001 17:03

Sounds very goo. We just bought REBOL/command and love it, but could still use some additional integerated features....

[8/54] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 28-Mar-2001 16:46

that's right... and nothing availlable to replace the expired /View !!! I was happy to learn about /Core/Pro and /Link/Pro, wich i plan to purchase as soon as they'll be availlable, for now i just have to stop anything i've starded with /View... Grrrrrr ! if only a beta or a /view with longer life was downloadable... Renaud

[9/54] from: ryan:christiansen:intellisol at: 28-Mar-2001 9:11

>that's right... and nothing availlable to replace the expired /View !!! >I was happy to learn about /Core/Pro and /Link/Pro, wich i plan to

purchase

>as soon as they'll be availlable, for now i just have to stop anything

i've

>starded with /View... Grrrrrr ! if only a beta or a /view with longer life >was downloadable...

This is exactly the reason I never started developing with /View in the first place. Ryan C. Christiansen

[10/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 28-Mar-2001 17:04

Renaud wrote:

> that's right... and nothing availlable to replace the expired /View !!! > I was happy to learn about /Core/Pro and /Link/Pro, wich i plan to purchase > as soon as they'll be availlable, for now i just have to stop anything i've > starded with /View... Grrrrrr ! if only a beta or a /view with longer life > was downloadable...

If it's not renewed, then you can bet imo RT is working very hard to get Rebol/Link/Word = new /View replacement out ... -pekr-

[11/54] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 28-Mar-2001 17:41

----- Original Message ----- From: "Petr Krenzelok" <[Petr--Krenzelok--trz--cz]>

> If it's not renewed, then you can bet imo RT is working very hard to get > Rebol/Link/Word = new /View replacement out ... > > -pekr-

I'm really very confident... I know how hard they're working, and I'm sure they'll make all their possible to release the new products as soon as possible (and maybe renew view before if needed). I have said that i'll buy /PROs, and sure i will even if the non-pro would be enougth for a few months for me... as I did for /Command runtime. This is one of the ways for me to support RT efforts. I've just got a new job (starting in may) as a PHP developper. I've made a Rebol presentation to the team i'm joining, and they are very interested to use rebol too. I wish big success to RT, as I love rebol and am sure it have a (growing) place on the maket Renaud

[12/54] from: alan_otterstad:mikronvinyl at: 28-Mar-2001 8:20

Just my opinion but I don't think they should arbitrarily cut off the old programs from working UNTIL they have the new ones out there to replace it. I realize that /View and /Core are 'beta type' test platforms and they are also free. And it is their program to do with they want to with. But gee guys, don't kill my old stuff until ya get the replacement out there ok??? I'm still learning rebol (really really beginning stuff) but it's just irksome that you would do it in this manner. I realize it's just the free versions that got hammered this way. And when the /link/pro and the /core/pro come out I'm probably gonna buy them for experimenting because of the price. I'm pretty sure I kin scrape up the money for them somewhere (btw, i appreciate the costs on those 2, pretty nice). Anyway, like the new website. Gonna have ta order that dummy book soon too. Old basic pgmr here havin trouble gettin mold and rejoin and some of those other verbs/functions/words/whatever ta process thru his brain but it'll eventually sink in I guess. Old dog...new trickz...here boy...sit up and beg...atsa good old dog.... :):):) "Renaud" <[rgombert--esse] To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> ntiel.net> cc: Sent by: Subject: [REBOL] Re: /View [rebol-bounce--r] ebol.com 03/28/2001 07:41 AM Please respond to rebol-list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petr Krenzelok" <[Petr--Krenzelok--trz--cz]>

> If it's not renewed, then you can bet imo RT is working very hard to get > Rebol/Link/Word = new /View replacement out ... > > -pekr-

[13/54] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 28-Mar-2001 9:49

Did you try this here: http://www.rebol.com/xpers/xpers.html [Alan_Otterstad--mikronvinyl--com] wrote: <snip> Old basic pgmr </snip> Me too! I have been experimenting with a different interpeter designs for a BASIC dialect in REBOL. --Ryan

[14/54] from: alan_otterstad:mikronvinyl at: 28-Mar-2001 10:16

I was just commenting about it Ryan. On Monday night when they changed over the site I tried downloading /core from that page and running it at home it bombed and wouldn't come up btw. I didn't even try /view. They may be different now and work but i wuz just putting in my 2 cents worth anyway. i'm not currently using either of them for anything but learning slowly. As for a Basic interpreter I think it would be pretty neat to be able to use one in Rebol. Might speed up the learning curve for this ol dog. I really haven't had much chance to practice with Rebol anyway since I found it. I've pretty much been hammered at work and also at home with getting win2k up and running and stable. Still haven't reached that stage yet (stupid com ports keep crapping out, think i have an irq conflict with serial service and other services running.) Also just life in general this past month or 2 has been hectic so i just havent' had much time to play around with learning Rebol. I would be interested in seeing your implementation of an interpreter tho. You're obviously a much more advanced programmer than I am. I'm just a grunt that they hand assignments to at work and I try to find the problem or figger out how to make the new report run and stuff like that. My only langs are basic and a smattering of VB and VBA. And that part is rusty. Have fun. thx alan

[15/54] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 28-Mar-2001 20:50

my thought is : GOOOOOOOOoooo !!! I will buy /View/Pro, and i'll talk about it all around me, as i'm allready doing... I am at the point where i seriously think to write a bookin french about Rebol Renaud ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: [REBOL] About View

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View

and its future. We came up with an excellent solution that provides a free version of View that is upgradable to a professional version that includes a few additional components, such as command shell, library access, and encryption.

> The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users

who want it. Of course, our hope is that all of you will want to buy the View/Pro product. And, that you would convince your friends, companies, comrades, and neighbors to buy it too. We need that to happen! Tell everyone.

> I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no

auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes.

> Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still

planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week.

[16/54] from: ryan:christiansen:intellisol at: 28-Mar-2001 12:55

Would REBOL/View and REBOL/View/Pro include more documentation? Ryan C. Christiansen Web Developer Intellisol International 4733 Amber Valley Parkway Fargo, ND 58104 701-235-3390 ext. 6671 FAX: 701-235-9940 http://www.intellisol.com Global Leader in People Performance Software _____________________________________ Confidentiality Notice This message may contain privileged and confidential information. If you think, for any reason, that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it, and we would ask you to notify us immediately by return email to [ryan--christiansen--intellisol--com] Carl Sassenrath To: [rebol-list--rebol--com] <[carl--rebol--c] cc: [ally-list--rebol--net] om> Subject: [REBOL] About View Sent by: rebol-bounce@ rebol.com 03/28/2001 12:30 PM Please respond to rebol-list About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View and its future. We came up with an excellent solution that provides a free version of View that is upgradable to a professional version that includes a few additional components, such as command shell, library access, and encryption. The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users who want it. Of course, our hope is that all of you will want to buy the View/Pro product. And, that you would convince your friends, companies, comrades, and neighbors to buy it too. We need that to happen! Tell everyone. I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes. Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week. Please let us know your thoughts. REBOL as always, -Carl

[17/54] from: alan_otterstad:mikronvinyl at: 28-Mar-2001 11:15

Carl, I am definitely interested in the /VIEW/PRO and the /CORE/PRO. Especially at those prices. I'm gonna have to balk this time at the /COMMAND price tho. Just outta my range is all. And I'm sure that many of those on this list will also support your company in this manner. we all are in the same boat ya know, trying to make a living. I'm sure everyone here realizes that you need to make money also to keep supporting Rebol. And from what I've read in the list you have some people out there that are fairly commited to using Rebol as a viable cross-platform programming language and tool. Keep up the good work there. thx alan

>From Carl

[18/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 28-Mar-2001 21:38

----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 8:30 PM Subject: [ALLY] About View

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View

> The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users

> I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no

auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes.

> Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still

planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week.

> Please let us know your thoughts.

I thought strategy here is clear? - Rebol/Link/World will replace current Rebol/View .... is it really needed to produce so MANY variants? The problem is I simply don't/can't believe you will keep them all up to date ;-) History back-ups my opinion .... As even for current View I wondered what one could do to remove View panel related code. I don't know how much size it adds to Rebol/View itself, but in most areas of usage it is not necessary and it could easily live in an external script form. We are mixing several layers here - core product (C level code), supporting functionality (rebol functions, VID dialect) and area respective/supportive code (View panel code). The third layer should not be hardwired into rebol imo. It messes global name-space (we don't have modules/components yet) and is not of a general use. On the other hand - View panel adds value to Rebol community, as it server as global word-wide-reb and Serve - Link goes even beyond. The question is - do we need it inside? Release one View-like product only - called View or Link/World, whatever, being able to connect to Serve _upon_request. e.g. by typing "help" or demo . Couldn't it live in external file? The first rebol component, eh? ;-) Because that way, you also save your resources, as why to re-release View for e.g., just because there is some bug in View panel? ;-) We don't have components, so we should be carefull to don't release tones of uncompatible products. As you can see - in current situation - everyone is going to be confused about what is part of what, why this is not part of that, etc. Just don't forget the consistency factor, please .... possible products: core - core/pro view - view/pro Serve - Link = Express family, special functionality allowed ... /Runtime - for all /Apache/pro /Command - View/Command starting to be confused :-) What if someone wants Link Express client being able to access local system libraries, shell, or even databases? Will we produce Link/pro, or even /Link/Command? :-) Thanks, -pekr-

[19/54] from: larry:ecotope at: 28-Mar-2001 11:28

Hi Carl Excellent! I am looking forward to an official release of View. I hope the decision will be to proceed. Two quick questions. 1) Will the official View (if released) include the reb capability? (I think that it is one of the best features of View.) 2) Will there be (in future) a runtime packaging capability, similar to that for Command? This would allow developers to create and distribute stand alone GUI applications for View. VID provides the best GUI creation environment I know of and it would make sense to provide for it's use in developing stand-alone apps. -Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:30 AM Subject: [REBOL] About View

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View

> The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users

> I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no

auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes.

> Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still

planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week.

[20/54] from: tspatters:yah:oo at: 29-Mar-2001 5:49

Sounds good to me...especially the "official and no more expiration woes" part! -Tim Patterson --- Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> wrote:

[21/54] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 28-Mar-2001 13:34

From: "Carl Sassenrath"

> I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link.

When RT gets it all planned out about what product lines it will be carrying, I would recommend that someone carefully peruse the rebol.com website and be sure that *all* the pages agree on the names of the products in order to avoid continued customer confusion. The new products page states that /View becomes /Link/World, and the download page states that /View is obsolete and being replaced by /Link. --Scott Jones

[22/54] from: carl:cybercraft at: 29-Mar-2001 7:38

On 29-Mar-01, Carl Sassenrath wrote:

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss

<<quoted lines omitted: 11>>

> provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and > no more expiration woes.

Would View be a subset of Link, meaning if you have Link, you wouldn't need View? If that's the case, would the advantage with View (other than being a little bit cheaper than Link:) be just that it has a smaller footprint than Link? If memory use and performance is not much different between the two, then I think it may just cause confusion having the two versions available. If there is quite a difference however, then View would have its place.

> Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are > still planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we > would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week. > Please let us know your thoughts. > REBOL as always, > -Carl

-- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

[23/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 28-Mar-2001 21:40

----- Original Message ----- From: "Renaud" <[rgombert--essentiel--net]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: About View

> my thought is : GOOOOOOOOoooo !!! > I will buy /View/Pro, and i'll talk about it all around me, as i'm

allready

> doing... I am at the point where i seriously think to write a bookin

french

> about Rebol

In such case, - let the book be translated into english .... rebol needs it! -pekr-

[24/54] from: carl:cybercraft at: 29-Mar-2001 7:41

On 29-Mar-01, [ryan--christiansen--intellisol--com] wrote:

> Would REBOL/View and REBOL/View/Pro include more documentation?

Very good point. Also worthy of consideration is an upgrade policy from Core/Pro to View/Pro to Link/Pro... -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

[25/54] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 28-Mar-2001 21:54

sure I will, but my concern is mainly that nothing exist to promote Rebol and show it's beautifull paradigm in French ;-) There's allready 2 books (+manuals) in english, wich i bought via amazon.fr to avoid high shipping cost, so the urgence is to make some in other languages... but I would be proud if my book is translated to english. But be aware that I'm not (yet ?) a rebol guru, and don't expect me to go deaper than the Elan and Ralph's excellent books.

[26/54] from: kevin_kelleher:non:hp at: 28-Mar-2001 12:02

Well, sure it would be great to have View... One thing that nearly every language lacks is facilities for simple GUI creation. As far as I've seen, View beats everyone hands down. I remember being convinced to use Rebol by seeing the compactness and clarity of some code (Vanilla, to be specific)... I think that if you combine: - clear, concise scripting - transparent network commands - easy creation of GUIs into a small, free language, it will be impossible to resist. Certainly the prices you ask are low, and I appreciate that, but "free" is the killer option. Kevin Kelleher

[27/54] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 28-Mar-2001 15:17

I have only two short points; There is no commercially redistributable runtime for /Link or /Link/World mentioned. Outlining your future products is very reassuring, especially the prices and terms of use. I predict, as you may have, more serious development in light of this information. Thats all, --Ryan

[28/54] from: philb:upnaway at: 29-Mar-2001 8:00

HI list, I'm a little confused .... this statement does not agree with the website (which I now assume is incorrect) .... Can someone tell us more about the difference between View and Link? I would certainly be buying either Rebol/View/Pro or Rebol/Link/Pro. (For those of thus that havent been beta testing Link) Would the price or Rebol/View/Pro be similar to Rebol/Link/Pro ?? Is there anything in View that wouldnt be in Link? (Like drawing functions). Cheers Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[ally-list--rebol--net]> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 2:30 AM Subject: [REBOL] About View

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View

> The demand for such a product seems high. We get a lot of email from users

> I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link. There would be no

auto-sync, Serve side, desktop, installer, etc. But, it does provide a solid 1.0 for you to rely on. It would be official... and no more expiration woes.

> Unfortunately, I cannot provide more detail at this time. We are still

planning it out. However, if the decision is to proceed, we would release View/Pro 1.0 in less than a week.

[29/54] from: bo:rebol at: 28-Mar-2001 17:20

Phil, You can think of Link as View with the addition of API functions for connecting to and synchronizing with REBOL/Serve. Otherwise, they should be identical. This is a simplified explanation, but may help to draw a picture (using View and Link's drawing functions, of course). ;-) Oh, also Link has a built-in desktop while View will likely not (except by way of an external script). -Bo On 29-Mar-2001/8:00:57+8:00, [philb--upnaway--com] wrote:

>HI list, >I'm a little confused ....

<<quoted lines omitted: 51>>

>[ally-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the >subject, without the quotes.

-- Bohdan "Bo" Lechnowsky REBOL Adventure Guide REBOL Technologies 707-467-8000 (http://www.rebol.com) The Official Source for REBOL Books (http://www.REBOLpress.com)

[30/54] from: philb:upnaway at: 29-Mar-2001 11:37

Thanks Bo, This makes things a lot clearer for me .... I will probably go with Link/Pro when it becomes avaialble. Missing View on Win98 though .... :-( Cheers Phil

[31/54] from: dvydra2:ya:hoo at: 29-Mar-2001 14:30

Will there be a R/V/Runtime? If I want to build a site using R/V as my "application player" and I expect millions of downloads AND I need encription, how do I license it? David --- Carl Sassenrath <[carl--rebol--com]> wrote:

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday

<<quoted lines omitted: 27>>

> [ally-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.

===== please reply to: [david--vydra--net]

[32/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 29-Mar-2001 6:26

GS Jones wrote:

> From: "Carl Sassenrath" > > I should point out that REBOL/View is not REBOL/Link.

<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>

> states that /View becomes /Link/World, and the download page states that > /View is obsolete and being replaced by /Link.

And that is exactctly(!) why I was so confused by Carl's message. Seemed like another Amiga Inc. kernel switch confusion :-) Unannounced, not publicly discussed, cooked behind the door, etc. :-) - but that's OK - RT wants to satisfy possible developer's need. So few points here: (note: the best scenario would probably be to have only ONE base-core - /Core and everything else in form of modules (scripts) or dynamic components (which are a little bit of a technical problem as I was told). But it will not happen anytime soon, so ...) 1) there should be free version of /Core and GUI capable version - /View or /Link 2) I agree with Larry that View panel adds great value to the products - world-wide-reb - and I also already stated, that Rebol/Link/World would go probably even further - those who know Express environment, all that nice conferencing, synchronisation, etc. will probably agree. The problem is, that sometimes we really don't need such features, especially those of us developing apps for customers. But - WHY to produce two basically the same products? - one - cleaned View, second one - Link/World, being able to connect to next-gen world-wide-reb? Is is really a big difficulty to put all Serve communication functionality in external script (module), and let it be loaded manually/typing 'demo or 'help or even someting new, eg. 'reb-world or even 'link or 'link-world? :-) - Conclusion - one product only .... 3) after we decide if it will be called /View or /Link/World, /pro version would be offered for us to buy .... Possible solution is to regard Serve and Link as simply Express family products, have /View and /View/Pro available and being able to LINK into Express WORLD upon request, by 'link-world command ... -pekr-

[33/54] from: brett:codeconscious at: 29-Mar-2001 15:16

Hi RT Team

> The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday to discuss REBOL/View

...

> Please let us know your thoughts.

I think it is an excellent idea. While Link/Pro will most likely satisfy my personal at-home needs - I think the above, as stated, would be great for those users who do not want any synchronisation with any server, but need a GUI, shell, etc. For example, I as a contractor might want to buy such a nice tool for work at a client site using it as a productivity tool not as a production item - an avoid issues with firewalls, security policies etc. Could be a nice little foot-in-the door application that quietly promotes Rebol and its corporate focussed sibling Link. In another context, though I would ask for such a package with a runtime generating option. This would be useful to those developers wanting to distribute rebol binaries to customers. Small productivity programs that if successful might encourage the client and the developer to "move up" to the next level computing/networking capability. Ultimately though, I hope your so wildly successful with Link and Serve that I can call up my personal/private desktop at home update it, call it up on a pocket computer on the bus and when at work access it again on the company desktop without my employer reading my updated CV! or for that matter my ASP/ISP (even though they may physically store/backup my data/programs). Of course then I need a work desktop too... The week after next for this one thanks... :-) Regards, Brett.

[34/54] from: carl:rebol at: 28-Mar-2001 22:44

Hi Phil: With regard to the website, it's not there because we just recently made the decision. The site will be updated soon to reflect the new product. The primary reason for not releasing Link/World or Link/Pro has to do with server loading. REBOL/Serve was designed to handle hundreds of users, not hundreds of thousands of users. It was created to be used by small to medium sized organizations and companies. In addition, we do not have the staff to deal with the volume of administrative issues that would come up (e.g. "I forgot my password," etc.) Note that Link/World and Link/Pro would only connect to REBOL Technologies' servers. To use Link for your own organization, you would need to buy Express. View can provide many of the same benefits of developer support by using a network of Reb sites. This also makes it easier for developers to add their own content and scripts to the network. The View desktop will be available in the View 1.1 product release. View 1.0 simply includes the View and VID functions. View/Pro 1.0 adds to it the shell, library, and encryption modules. It does not include database access modules, which will continue to be provided only in REBOL/Command. -Carl

[35/54] from: coussement:c:itc:mil:be at: 29-Mar-2001 8:55

> that's right... and nothing availlable to replace the expired /View !!! > I was happy to learn about /Core/Pro and /Link/Pro, wich i plan to > purchase > as soon as they'll be availlable, for now i just have to stop anything > i've > starded with /View...

[ For this same reason I couldn't think about using it for the GUI of the Belgian Armed Forces new psychotechnical Computer Aided Testing... I had to satisfy myself with DHTML and Java. Too bad ... I hope /link will be for sale soon ! ==chr ]

[36/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 29-Mar-2001 9:14

Carl, thanks for the clarification! Carl Sassenrath wrote:

> Hi Phil: > With regard to the website, it's not there because we just recently made the

<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>

> In addition, we do not have the staff to deal with the volume of > administrative issues that would come up (e.g. "I forgot my password," etc.)

... right, that's something I forgot about could happen ....

> Note that Link/World and Link/Pro would only connect to REBOL Technologies' > servers. To use Link for your own organization, you would need to buy > Express. >

What is the answer for those willing to buy Express for their organisation but e.g. to fill conference messages into local .dbf database files, and it requires shell and/or library access? Do you think Link/Pro client for Express users would be of no value? What do you think about it?

> View can provide many of the same benefits of developer support by using a > network of Reb sites. This also makes it easier for developers to add their > own content and scripts to the network. The View desktop will be available > in the View 1.1 product release.

Aha - View desktop? So no chance of removing the unneaded code at will? Could View desktop be put simply into separate script file? It would even allow to develop/repair bugs it while not requiring ppl to re-download the whole View product. Now I don't understand what is the difference in Link/World and View desktop in its purpose?

> View 1.0 simply includes the View and VID functions. View/Pro 1.0 adds to it > the shell, library, and encryption modules. It does not include database > access modules, which will continue to be provided only in REBOL/Command. >

OK, but View kernel and VID will be the same thru all your GUI enabled products, right? btw: View/Command not planned? Thanks, -pekr-

[37/54] from: stefan:falk:slg:se at: 29-Mar-2001 9:21

Hi, I've got a question, earlier (IIRC) it was said that Rebol/View should replace Rebol/Core, that it is Core with the graphics stuff added, what happened to this? If it's still supposed to be, why make a Rebol/Core/Pro? /Regards Stefan

[38/54] from: carl:cybercraft at: 29-Mar-2001 20:13

On 29-Mar-01, [stefan--falk--slg--se] wrote:

> Hi, > I've got a question, earlier (IIRC) it was said that Rebol/View > should replace Rebol/Core, that it is Core with the graphics stuff > added, what happened to this? If it's still supposed to be, why make > a Rebol/Core/Pro?

They decided against this due to the demand for a Core-only version being available. Often it's all that's needed, (server-side, for instance), and so having just Core can save resources. -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

[39/54] from: stefan:falk:slg:se at: 29-Mar-2001 10:19

Right. Gotcha! :-) /Regards Stefan

[40/54] from: stefan:falk:slg:se at: 29-Mar-2001 10:18

My thought exactly, but I think I heard quite some time a go that View was going to replace Core, but things might have changed since then. :-) /Regards Stefan

[41/54] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 29-Mar-2001 10:08

[stefan--falk--slg--se] wrote:

> Hi, > I've got a question, earlier (IIRC) it was said that Rebol/View should > replace Rebol/Core, that it is Core with the graphics stuff added, what > happened to this? If it's still supposed to be, why make a Rebol/Core/Pro?

Most ppl here who expressed their opinion hadn't agree to that. View has slower loading, and if you want to use the product for CGI purposes e.g., you don't need GUI at all ... -pekr-

[42/54] from: rebol:techscribe at: 29-Mar-2001 0:24

Hi Stefan, We will continue to need a /Core version for CGI scripts. Most ISPs who run Linux or FreeBSD do not install XLib on their server because they are not running XWindows (the machine is configured as a server machine, not as a workstation). At the time /View is loaded the Linux loader checks for the availability of these library files, even if they aren't used by the CGI scripts that will subsequently be run under /View. Elan [stefan--falk--slg--se] wrote:

[43/54] from: al:bri:xtra at: 29-Mar-2001 22:16

Carl wrote:

> Please let us know your thoughts.

I think the free version of View should include the 'browse word. It's very handy for launching a browser. View will also be good for secondary (age 13 - 18) schools, learning computer language and having graphics as well. It would be a better Logo than Logo is, as well as being far better BASIC than BASIC. As for Link and Express, once I can see how to get a Link application to be able to share data with other Link applications, I can see that it will be useful in organisations for seemingly simple things like electronic Staff absence/present noticeboard; vehicle, room and resources reservations board; messaging across a multi-building organisation. Andrew Martin Lagging behind Rebol... ICQ: 26227169 http://members.nbci.com/AndrewMartin/

[44/54] from: tbrownell::yahoo at: 29-Mar-2001 22:23

Also along these line... Will there be an upgrade price if you already have command and runtime? Terry Brownell David Vydra <[dvydra2--yahoo--com]> wrote: Will there be a R/V/Runtime? If I want to build a site using R/V as my "application player" and I expect millions of downloads AND I need encription, how do I license it? David --- Carl Sassenrath wrote:

> About REBOL/View... funny that you ask, because: > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday

<<quoted lines omitted: 27>>

> [ally-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.

===== please reply to: [david--vydra--net]

[45/54] from: al:bri:xtra at: 29-Mar-2001 22:35

Forwarded for consideration. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://members.nbci.com/AndrewMartin/ -><- ----- Original Message ----- From: "CRS - Psy Sel/SPO, COUSSEMENT Christophe, CPN" <[COUSSEMENT--C--ITC--mil--be]>

[46/54] from: philb:upnaway at: 29-Mar-2001 22:41

Hi Carl, Thanks for the info .... glad we wont have the expration date problems in the future :-)))))) Looking forward to the new products :-) .... espescially the Shell access in the Pro versions. Of course we still dont have an unexpired View to run at the moment (on Win98 for the last 2 days) :-( Cheers Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> To: <[ally-list--rebol--com]> Cc: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>

[47/54] from: roblasalle:y:ahoo at: 29-Mar-2001 13:21

--- Brett Handley <[brett--codeconscious--com]> wrote:

> Hi RT Team > > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday

<<quoted lines omitted: 54>>

> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.

the strategy of a free/cheap and basic REBOL/View is a great idea for newbies like me who need this to develop our skills and create proof of feasibility to sell the more expensive but reasonably priced REBOL products to those we are developing for. THANKS!

[48/54] from: carl:cybercraft at: 30-Mar-2001 12:41

On 30-Mar-01, Rob LaSalle wrote:

> the strategy of a free/cheap and basic REBOL/View is a > great idea for newbies like me who need this to > develop our skills and create proof of feasibility to > sell the more expensive but reasonably priced REBOL > products to those we are developing for. THANKS!

I also see the free REBOLs as the "players" for those who just want to run scripts, while the Pro versions are for the serious developers. Being able to say on the HTML part of your REB sites where vistors should go to download the free View or Link to run your REBOL scripts is both good for you and an excellent way to get REBOL known about. -- Carl Read [carl--cybercraft--co--nz]

[49/54] from: al:bri:xtra at: 30-Mar-2001 16:26

I think a Rebol/View with Shell access and a run-time capability would be great for applications like CD-ROM databases and kiosk applications. Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://members.nbci.com/AndrewMartin/

[50/54] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 30-Mar-2001 16:56

On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 22:44:47 -0800 "Carl Sassenrath" <[carl--rebol--com]> wrote:

> View 1.0 simply includes the View and VID functions. > View/Pro 1.0 adds to it > the shell, library, and encryption modules. It does not > include database > access modules, which will continue to be provided only > in REBOL/Command.

Any idea when ODBC will be fixed? And is there a stand-alone view product with database access? -- Graham Chiu

[51/54] from: mritun:me:iitb:ac:in at: 30-Mar-2001 13:46

that is a great idea... go ahead... On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Rob LaSalle wrote: :) :)--- Brett Handley <[brett--codeconscious--com]> wrote: :)> Hi RT Team :)> :)> > The REBOL team held a three hour meeting yesterday :)> to discuss REBOL/View :)> and its future. We came up with an excellent :)> solution that provides a free :)> version of View that is upgradable to a professional :)> version that includes a :)> few additional components, such as command shell, :)> library access, and :)> encryption. :)> > :)> ... :)> :)> > Please let us know your thoughts. :)> :)> I think it is an excellent idea. :)> :)> While Link/Pro will most likely satisfy my personal :)> at-home needs - I think :)> the above, as stated, would be great for those users :)> who do not want any :)> synchronisation with any server, but need a GUI, :)> shell, etc. For example, I :)> as a contractor might want to buy such a nice tool :)> for work at a client site :)> using it as a productivity tool not as a production :)> item - an avoid issues :)> with firewalls, security policies etc. Could be a :)> nice little foot-in-the :)> door application that quietly promotes Rebol and its :)> corporate focussed :)> sibling Link. :)> :)> In another context, though I would ask for such a :)> package with a runtime :)> generating option. This would be useful to those :)> developers wanting to :)> distribute rebol binaries to customers. Small :)> productivity programs that if :)> successful might encourage the client and the :)> developer to "move up" to the :)> next level computing/networking capability. :)> :)> Ultimately though, I hope your so wildly successful :)> with Link and Serve that :)> I can call up my personal/private desktop at home :)> update it, call it up on a :)> pocket computer on the bus and when at work access :)> it again on the company :)> desktop without my employer reading my updated CV! :)> or for that matter my :)> ASP/ISP (even though they may physically :)> store/backup my data/programs). Of :)> course then I need a work desktop too... The week :)> after next for this one :)> thanks... :-) :)> :)> Regards, :)> Brett. :)> :)> -- :)> To unsubscribe from this list, please send an email :)> to :)> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the :)> subject, without the quotes. :)> :)the strategy of a free/cheap and basic REBOL/View is a :)great idea for newbies like me who need this to :)develop our skills and create proof of feasibility to :)sell the more expensive but reasonably priced REBOL :)products to those we are developing for. THANKS! :) :) :)__________________________________________________ :)Do You Yahoo!? :)Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. :)http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text :) -- Keep Smiling - mritunjai ******************************************************************************* In 1962, four nervous young musicians played their first record audition for the executives of the Decca recording Company. The executives were not impressed. While turning down this group of musicians, one executives said, "We don't like their sound. Groups of guitars are on the way out." The group was called "The Beatles" ... Never say die ******************************************************************************* Akhilesh Mritunjai Sophomore Undergraduate Mechanical Engg. Dept IIT Bombay Mumbai India 400 076

[52/54] from: carl:rebol at: 15-Apr-2001 20:30

Thanks. Pretty amazing what a "scripting" language can do, eh?

[53/54] from: ptretter:charter at: 15-Apr-2001 22:03

I really like the new desktop. Playing with it alot, expecially ctx-viewtop. Keep up the great work RT. Paul Tretter

[54/54] from: ptretter:charter at: 15-Apr-2001 22:44

Took the words right out of my mind! Paul Tretter

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