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Forum Name

 [1/17] from: otherchaz::mindspring::com at: 6-Jan-2004 6:17


fwiw, RebolForum embodies both a) the sense of academic gathering together e.g. discussion forum b) the sense of excitement and adrenaline e.g. the Roman Forum

 [2/17] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 6-Jan-2004 11:47


I prefer rebolforum it IS a rebol forum so its the most direct name you can give it. BUT The problem I see with the forum Idea is that Carl S. promotes altMe en masse and the vast majority of rebolers accept Carl's views as the default pattern thinking for anything rebol. trying to virge the community to a new communication channel, will only further split the exchange of information. There is already a (vast?) gap in altme and mailing list information. Sometimes, its obvious that the premium information is being discussed on altme. I (and many others like me) just don't have time to start following 2-3-4 different communication threads each day. I think that is why the previous forum failed (combined with the number of rebolers there are). -MAx --- You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution, but in the end, being part of the problem is much more fun.

 [3/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 6-Jan-2004 10:57


Yeah I agree. I wouldn't want to fracture the community much more at this point. I do think Altme serves a great purpose. Problem is that we need a place where quick access to answers can be provided. The more scattered the mediums that attempt to gain our rebol attention the more chances that we wont get that perk that having a narrow resource pool gives us. So if anything, we probably need to have more marketing and inclusion for the Altme REBOL world instead. And at some time in the fuure its my hope that after REBOL-VIEW world has completed its task it will be accessible somehow from the REBOL world. Paul Tretter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch" <[maximo--meteorstudios--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 10:47 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Forum Name
> I prefer rebolforum > > it IS a rebol forum so its the most direct name you can give it. > > BUT > > The problem I see with the forum Idea is that Carl S. promotes altMe en
masse and the vast majority of rebolers accept Carl's views as the default pattern thinking for anything rebol.
> trying to virge the community to a new communication channel, will only
further split the exchange of information. There is already a (vast?) gap in altme and mailing list information.
> Sometimes, its obvious that the premium information is being discussed on
altme.
> I (and many others like me) just don't have time to start following 2-3-4
different communication threads each day. I think that is why the previous forum failed (combined with the number of rebolers there are).

 [4/17] from: carlos:lorenz:bol at: 6-Jan-2004 16:42


Em Ter 06 Jan 2004 14:47, you wrote:
> The problem I see with the forum Idea is that Carl S. promotes altMe en > masse and the vast majority of rebolers accept Carl's views as the default > pattern thinking for anything rebol. >
by the way how do I get access to REBOL-View world? Carlos

 [5/17] from: alekk:hipopotam at: 6-Jan-2004 19:55


----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Tretter" <[ptretter--charter--net]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Forum Name
> Yeah I agree. I wouldn't want to fracture the community much more at this > point. I do think Altme serves a great purpose.
Problem with AltMe is it nature - it is great when comes to (rather small IMO) group cooperation in making something - but fails, when someone new comes in. No archive - and even archive is provided, it will be one-long page to dig-in. Compare it with short disccusion in [forum/beginner/VID related/How can i update slider?] and simplicity to answer on _exactly that_ question and adding new information even after few months if things are changed. Add to this moderators with possibility to edit/delete redundant posts and straightening wrong subjects. It is another type of cogs. More "gringo" friendly. How many times do You want to answer for simple questions? In all forums we can find "non-answered questions" - and Rebol Hackers can do some work for community once in week ;-) Forum is as good, as his Master and Mods are giving heart to it - working on it's architecture, answering simple questions and copy solutions from other sources. Two more things - blame on me, but I think forum: 1. Can with "peace in mind" replace "cookbook" 2. Better if not in Rebol - there is no time to reinventing whell (at least until complete solution will be done). Forum must be open "to read" for all users (and then to google to). regards Aleksander K.

 [6/17] from: mail:defiantpc at: 6-Jan-2004 14:29


Last night we purchased reboltalk.com and rebol-help.com I am currently creating a index page for rebol-help and will instal phpbb on reboltalk as soon as the domain resolves. While I understand the concerns about fragmentation I feel the need for archived information for new users will definitely benefit from a forum and possibly a clear index of where to find rebol resources. While I hope that the rebol community will pitch in ( perhaps moderate the forum, or add articles) I don't expect it. As I am a new to rebol myself, perhaps I can seed the forum with questions I have answered through the mail list. FYI: Rebol Help I would like to develop for new users a sorta getting started, quick reference and index that can be googled for rebol resources. Anyhoot... I will let all know when the forums up. -Mj.

 [7/17] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 6-Jan-2004 16:08


> > Yeah I agree. I wouldn't want to fracture the community much more at
this
> > point. I do think Altme serves a great purpose. > > Problem with AltMe is it nature - it is great when comes to (rather small > IMO) group cooperation in making something - but fails, when someone new > comes in. > No archive - and even archive is provided, it will be one-long page to > dig-in.
I agree. AltME is good for live relatively intimate discussions, when one is keeping up daily, and swimming energetically in the stream. But its structure, archive interface, import/export, formatting, linking and any modern re-usable google access leave much to be desired. If it were openSource then it would be much easier for REbolers to contribute to its developement. Kind of ironic since AltME is 'free', and that precisely this sort of fast extensibility is one of the jopbs Rebol is supposed to be good at. - Jason

 [8/17] from: ptretter:charter at: 6-Jan-2004 15:39


Well on second thought, I suppose Altme is not the best solution either. What we need is a cross between the two - the strength of the Altme is its realtime action - where we can see whos logged on and we need the strength of the forum where we can moderate it so that there is archive searchable database with sticky threads at the top of the list for newbies to find quick access to help. Paul Tretter

 [9/17] from: ammon:addept:ws at: 6-Jan-2004 15:17


I personally am of the opinion that REBOL needs all of the before mentioned forms of support. AltMe for those of us who like the IM/Chat style communication, Mail List for those who are stuck in their email clients and a forum for a quick and easy way to check out REBOL's strengths and weaknesses without having to download or install anything. Each has its merits and its own userbase. Getting a forum going and keeping it going is simply going to depend on two things, how good its master is (how stable it is) and how good the gurus who frequent it are. I say we can't go wrong in getting a good forum up and going. Perhaps last time it was tried there simply weren't enough ppl into REBOL who like the Forum style interface or perhaps it wasn't stable enough or maybe a little of each. FWIW ~~Ammon ;->

 [10/17] from: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 7-Jan-2004 1:39


Am Dienstag 06 Januar 2004 22:08 schrieb Jason Cunliffe:
> > > Yeah I agree. I wouldn't want to fracture the community much more at > this
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> > No archive - and even archive is provided, it will be one-long page to > > dig-in.
Archive is there. Its not digital, its human. Just ask the question, and tips and links pop up. Only google can compete :)
> I agree. AltME is good for live relatively intimate discussions, when one > is keeping up daily, and swimming energetically in the stream. But its
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> that precisely this sort of fast extensibility is one of the jopbs Rebol is > supposed to be good at.
OTOH, More developers, more buttons in the GUI. Btw, it is easy to contribute. The sending part is closed, but the data is easily loadable in rebol. And to process. One could even reserve groups to post in a forum. About the format, well, ask in the rebol-world ;)
> - Jason
-Volker

 [11/17] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 6-Jan-2004 20:04


> OTOH, More developers, more buttons in the GUI. > Btw, it is easy to contribute. The sending part is closed, but the data is > easily loadable in rebol. And to process. One could even reserve groups to > post in a forum. About the format, well, ask in the rebol-world ;)
All good points. Thanks - Jason

 [12/17] from: carlos:lorenz:bol at: 7-Jan-2004 8:58


Em Ter 06 Jan 2004 18:29, you wrote:
> Last night we purchased reboltalk.com and rebol-help.com > I am currently creating a index page for rebol-help and will instal phpbb > on reboltalk as soon as the domain resolves.
I did the same with rebolbrasil using phpbb. i may say it's just fine take a look : http://www.nobrenet.com/rebolbrasil
> While I understand the concerns about fragmentation I feel the need for > archived information for new users will definitely benefit from a > forum and possibly a clear index of where to find rebol resources.
nothing better then archived info for new users. i feel like that too
> While I hope that the rebol community will pitch in ( perhaps moderate the > forum, or add articles)
I am not an expert at REBOL programming but I may help if I can ;) Regards Carlos Lorenz

 [13/17] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 7-Jan-2004 12:22


> > I am currently creating a index page for rebol-help and will instal
phpbb
> > on reboltalk as soon as the domain resolves.
Does it have easy option to send email when posts are replied to? creativecow.net has a good system. Easy to see threads and when making a new post you just check "send me email notice about replies to this post" or any new messages in this thread http://www.creativecow.net/index.php?forumid=24 This is rally great - a sensible 'push' technology. One does not have to check-in constantly just to see if anyone has answered a question. In fact in terms of getting questions answered it beats email, AltMe or even newsgroups. The email which arrives contains the answer plus hyperlink tot the message thread, so no browsing time wasted. So simple and effective. I wish they all had this. Most of us probably participate in many topic forums, subscribe to mailing lists and have lives and work and $pam. A bonus of the "notify me" mechanism is that as the forum generates more traffic, becomes more successful, it makes no difference to getting answers. If you go away for some time there is a better chance of quickly returning to the point at hand. If someone has a complex problem and later revisits that thread with a new solution or a newcomer finds it via search then they too can add easily to and old thread. Et voila you may get a very pertinent email even if the thread is old. Forums, newgroups, mailing lists, AltMe are all time-biased. But many problems are not. So very important, especially for beginners or anyone not bale to keep up with the flow to have this notify option, supported by a good search tool. Another nice feature on Creative cow is that there are alliterative ways to display the forum message threads. This includes a smooth scrolling one for any given thread which avoids the very tedious need to keep clicking and sending http request back to the server just to read the next message. Just click on the little green "T" icon at the head of any thread to se what I am talking about. They also change text color to indicate message read, and there is an option to select that for all messages in a thread. - Jason

 [14/17] from: maximo:meteorstudios at: 7-Jan-2004 13:19


> -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Cunliffe
<<quoted lines omitted: 16>>
> check-in constantly just to see if anyone has answered a > question.
yes, if the forum actually gives mail feedback (on user specified conditions, which includes all posts), then the mail interface strips the tediousness of forums a lot. It also lets me receive all information from all sources (not just rebol, btw) in ONE place. It would be cool if the mail which is sent includes a http link which opens a "post a reply" web page. Then you can use the e-mail to receive and you can submit replies without effort. If that is done, then you might see more email list advocates, at least try out the forum. E-mail works, because its KISS, passive, off-line, its universal and you can SORT and DELETE threads in mail boxes for reference... which is something many people forget... The way rebol.org now works with notification is really great, cause you have the advanced user-driven , interactive side coupled with email's above strengths. rebol.org could have been a good place to include a forum... They should put a link to this new forum on their site IMHO. -MAx

 [15/17] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 7-Jan-2004 11:57


Hi Max, MOA> rebol.org could have been a good place to include a forum... You never know... MOA> They should put a link to this new forum on their site IMHO. I'm sure we will. -- Gregg

 [16/17] from: didec:tiscali at: 8-Jan-2004 0:35


Re: Forum Name As one of the everyday user of the french forum http://www.codeur.org/forum/forum.php?css=http://membres.lycos.fr/rebolfrance/forum.css&theme=17 since one and a half year, I perhaps can give you comments on it's usage. Web forum has the advantage to be reachable from everywhere with only a browser and without any setup. By opposition, ALTME need an apps and Mail need a mail client and setup, so they are more restrict to use on a specific machine. I use ALTME on 2 computers (home and work), and I need to check twice if unreaded messages where not already read on the other computer (boring). For the ML, as spam kill me everyday, I don't use mail client too much and still the same problem : 2 computers. So I send you this message with my short Rebol client that parse the list and messages web pages ;-) Forum need to be well build (and explain) to be usefull as searching info. Our forum has (simple, yes) search capabilities, but "keyword" search is not very reliable. If you want to know hos to open a port, searching "port" or "open" will bring you too much answers not concerning your problem. To be usefull, a more advanced search engine must be used with boolean search and so on. Forum, are usually sorted by date and thread title. A good thing would be to have categories. To be able to place a post in some of them, so you can browse categories to find documents. We have the "Send me a mail when answer" but I never used it (like Carl said, mail suck). But sure it's a needed functionnality. In the thread list, registered users have a visual indication of thread where unreaded posts are. Just some red or yellow squares to indicate them. For a guy like me, who post more answers than questions, It's very very usefull !! For whose who ask, they can see if new answer were posted since their last visit, even if they don't have the ability to receive mail (cybercoffe, office, friend home...). Our forum was code by a student in web technologie, so it give us fine features like the ability to receive the thread list page or a tread page (posts) in XML format. ie: the HTML thread list http://www.codeur.org/forum/forum.php?theme=17 and the XML one http://www.codeur.org/forum/xml_forum.php?theme=17 He also add an XML-RPC server, so we can now use the REBXR work to act on the forum without browser. Nice. So I have build a Rebol client that can read XML tread list page periodically and where I display the same red and yellow indicators. Like this, it become more "real-time". I have planned to also display the posts page with Rebol (done but not release yet), like this I will be able to "run code" directly, a la easy-vid ;-), next step is XML-RPC use. As I understand it, you want your forum to be a "tips" and "how to" archive location. So you need to restrict access to people that know where and how posts things. Or you will need many moderators : we begin to see more and more "trolls" (ads, illegal stuff, hackers...) Probably more to say, but thats all for now. Regards DideC

 [17/17] from: hallvard:ystad:oops-as:no at: 8-Jan-2004 10:22


Hi Fractioning or not, the more different rebol communication channels there are, the more the rebol word spreads around, n'est-ce pas? And isn't that what everyone whishes for? Isn't the increasing number of fora just a sign that rebol is popular? HY Dixit Paul Tretter (17.57 06.01.2004):

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