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[ALLY] Email and Proxies

 [1/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 29-Aug-2000 15:27


Holger, I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own stupidity. I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people how powerful Rebol is. It failed. After about an hour I found out why. I recently changed my 'user.r' to use generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a Netscape Proxy server. This proxy server does not allow mail out. Mail is handled by another machine. Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy server at all. The reason why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net' to go to the socks server and all was well. Works like the Champ that it is. Something tells me you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP. Or, it really is some kind of bug. TIA, Greg Piney Standard and Poor's Web Engineering

 [2/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 9:55


[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM Please respond to [ally--rebol--com] To: [ally--rebol--com] cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US) Subject: [ALLY] Email and Proxies Holger, I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own stupidity. I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people how powerful Rebol is. It failed. After about an hour I found out why. I recently changed my 'user.r' to use generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a Netscape Proxy server. This proxy server does not allow mail out. Mail is handled by another machine. Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy server at all. The reason why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net' to go to the socks server and all was well. Works like the Champ that it is. Something tells me you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP. Or, it really is some kind of bug. TIA, Greg Piney Standard and Poor's Web Engineering

 [3/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 13:14


Wrong answer. My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into the Browser as part of auto configuration. The browser can then determine which addresses are 'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard setup for a large corporation. The real answer here is that Rebol should not proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher should be sent to a proxy. All other services should be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for that service. Greg Piney S&P Web Engineering Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL] cc: [ally--rebol--com] Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies [holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago stating that you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or socks5 Here is the URL to his archived msg. http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] >[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM >Please respond to [ally--rebol--com]
<<quoted lines omitted: 16>>
>Greg Piney >Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer] free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com ; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.

 [4/8] from: hopeless:eircom at: 31-Aug-2000 18:45


I'm only a newbie, but according to the REBOL official guide you can selectively disable proxies for each protocol by doing /system/schemes/smtp/proxy/host: false /system/schemes/smtp/proxy/port-id: false /system/schemes/smtp/proxy/type: false This worked for me as I had the same problem (I think) Jamie
> -----Original Message----- > From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] [mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 32>>
> socks5 > Here is the URL to his archived msg.
http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] >[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM >Please respond to [ally--rebol--com]
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
>Holger, >I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own
stupidity.
>I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people >how powerful Rebol is. It failed.
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
>Greg Piney >Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer] free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com ; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.

 [5/8] from: christmn:clackamas:ds:adp at: 31-Aug-2000 11:06


This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid:: password :: bypass rules. It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy settings and not defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy, etc. In the absence of defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default settings. In addition, if you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme, you can set the proxy settings to false. ----- Original Message ----- From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] To: [list--rebol--com] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re: Wrong answer. My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into the Browser as part of auto configuration. The browser can then determine which addresses are 'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard setup for a large corporation. The real answer here is that Rebol should not proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher should be sent to a proxy. All other services should be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for that service. Greg Piney S&P Web Engineering Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL] cc: [ally--rebol--com] Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies [holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago stating that you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or socks5 Here is the URL to his archived msg. http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] ===== >[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
>Greg Piney >Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer] free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com ; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not. ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=2>Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out <A href="http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html">http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid:: password :: bypass rules.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy settings and not</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy, etc. In the absence of</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default settings. In addition, if</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme, you can set the proxy settings</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>to false.</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] href="mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]">[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=[list--rebol--com] href="mailto:[list--rebol--com]">[list--rebol--com]</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:14 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>Wrong answer.<BR>My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears<BR>that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy<BR>if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a<BR>proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for<BR>routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into<BR>the Browser as part of auto configuration. The<BR>browser can then determine which addresses are<BR>'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are<BR>sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard<BR>setup for a large corporation.<BR>The real answer here is that Rebol should not<BR>proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that<BR>service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't<BR>handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher<BR>should be sent to a proxy. All other services should<BR>be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for<BR>that service.<BR><BR>Greg Piney<BR>S&amp;P Web Engineering<BR><BR>Terrence Brannon <<A href="mailto:[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]">[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]</A>
> on
08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM<BR><BR><BR><BR>To:&nbsp; Greg <A href="mailto:Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]">Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]</A><BR>cc:&nbsp; <A href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR><BR>Subject:&nbsp; RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><A href="mailto:[holger--rebol--com]">[holger--rebol--com]</A> sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago stating that<BR>you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or<BR>socks5<BR><BR>Here is the URL to his archived msg.<BR><BR><A href="http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html">http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html</A><BR><BR>>===== Original Message From <A href="mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]">[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]</A> =====<BR>>[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM<BR>>Please respond to <A href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>To:&nbsp; <A href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR>>cc:&nbsp; (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US)<BR>><BR>>Subject:&nbsp; [ALLY] Email and Proxies<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Holger,<BR>><BR>>I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own stupidity.<BR>><BR>>I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people<BR>>how powerful Rebol is. It failed.<BR>>After about an hour I found out why.<BR>><BR>>I recently changed my 'user.r' to use generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a<BR>>Netscape Proxy server. This proxy server does not allow mail out. Mail is<BR>>handled by another machine. Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy<BR>>server at all. The reason why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net'<BR>>to go to the socks server and all was well. Works like the Champ that<BR>>it is. Something tells me you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP.<BR>>Or, it really is some kind of bug.<BR>><BR>>TIA,<BR>><BR>>Greg Piney<BR>>Standard and Poor's Web Engineering<BR><BR>terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer]<BR>free-email:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href="http://www.MailAndNews.com">http://www.MailAndNews.com</A><BR>free-usenet:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A href="http://www.mailAndNews.com">http://www.mailAndNews.com</A><BR>; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0--

 [6/8] from: ssayer:acuson at: 31-Aug-2000 14:50


Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably, SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies. I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the other schemes that can't use that proxy. Later, Stephen On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:

 [7/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 16:24


Thank you Stephen for putting it so well. If a proxy is specified in 'set-net', Rebol should only 'turn it on' for HTTP, FTP, and Gopher. All other services should remain false. This scenario would cover 90+ percent of proxy users. It would also make distribution of Rebol apps easier as less customization would be required by the end user. Greg Piney S&P Web Engineering [ssayer--acuson--com] on 08/31/2000 02:50:16 PM Please respond to [list--rebol--com] To: [list--rebol--com] cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US) Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(3) Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably, SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies. I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the other schemes that can't use that proxy. Later, Stephen On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:

 [8/8] from: christmn:clackamas:ds:adp at: 31-Aug-2000 16:32


Possibly, but I would have to disagree to a point. I have friends and family that work for Intel, Microsfot, IBM, Cisco, HP, and Fujitsu. And even though a lot of originizations have a standard proxy that handles HTTP, FTP, GOPHER, there are many that do not. Three friends I have at Intel all have different proxies for FTP and HTTP and NNTP. The friend that works at IBM has a separate FTP proxy from his HTTP proxy. I thought that most orginizations had standard proxy as described, but as I inquired amongst the tech people I know, I found out that a much larger percentage of the tech and especially the R&D world do not. Many sites separate out HTTP traffic from FTP traffic. Many don't. It depends on the bandwidth and policies of the orginization. Not to mention resources (money). Perhaps it would be nice to change the installation prompting. Edit rebol.r in REBOL_HOME and add the questions you want and and have it set the protocols as such. You also have to look at 90% of the Internet Users ( Joe Surfer at home ). The way it is setup with a default for all, suffices just fine through an ISP. Probably 90% of all apps will be used under one of two scenarios; Joe Surfer at home or Joe Worker behind a firewall. For Joe Worker, behind a firewall, 90% of any Apps they would run, I would hope would be within the firewall and not outside of it. For the other 10%, well I guess that's what tech people are for, to help set things up properly. I think that overall it is setup correctly. If it suffices for 90% of all potential users and the other 10% need protocol refinements, then the global system default should be where it is at. My only fault with this would be that the set-user function out of rebol.r should possibly prompt for the individual protocols after prompting and setting the system/schemes/default/proxy. set-user should ask 'Use defualt proxy for protocol 'XXXX' (Y/n/disable)? If you answer yes then it should similarly ask for all fields of the protocol 'host' 'port-id' 'user' 'pass' 'type' 'bypass' . Your average user though will not have any idea on how to set these up or what they even mean. The 'View' installation is probalby what will eventually be the interface for most apps and I would suppose that looking at the recent Beta [Prefs] button, that you could write your app to display any and all system settings in a type of control panel and just use radio buttons to enable/disable, use default/custom proxy settings on individual protocols and have text fields displayed for the settings. The rest of the areas where you may need proxy settings for apps is on servers themselves ( http w/ rebol cgi ) ( rebol servers ) and if you don't know how to setup proxy access from the server through the firewall securely after reading the network documentation (which is really straight forward), then you need to show the network documentation to your own LAN/WAN tech people so that they can help you out. ----- Original Message ----- From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] To: [list--rebol--com] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 1:24 PM Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(4) Thank you Stephen for putting it so well. If a proxy is specified in 'set-net', Rebol should only 'turn it on' for HTTP, FTP, and Gopher. All other services should remain false. This scenario would cover 90+ percent of proxy users. It would also make distribution of Rebol apps easier as less customization would be required by the end user. Greg Piney S&P Web Engineering [ssayer--acuson--com] on 08/31/2000 02:50:16 PM Please respond to [list--rebol--com] To: [list--rebol--com] cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US) Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(3) Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably, SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies. I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the other schemes that can't use that proxy. Later, Stephen On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:
> Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out
http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html
> Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid::
password :: bypass rules.
> It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy
settings and not
> defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy,
etc. In the absence of
> defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default
settings. In addition, if
> you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme,
you can set the proxy settings
> to false. > ----- Original Message -----
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> S&P Web Engineering > Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04
AM
> > To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL] > cc: [ally--rebol--com] > > Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies > > [holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago
stating that
> you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only
socks4 or

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