[ALLY] Email and Proxies
[1/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 29-Aug-2000 15:27
Holger,
I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own stupidity.
I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people
how powerful Rebol is. It failed.
After about an hour I found out why.
I recently changed my 'user.r' to use generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a
Netscape Proxy server. This proxy server does not allow mail out. Mail is
handled by another machine. Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy
server at all. The reason why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net'
to go to the socks server and all was well. Works like the Champ that
it is. Something tells me you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP.
Or, it really is some kind of bug.
TIA,
Greg Piney
Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
[2/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 9:55
[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM
Please respond to [ally--rebol--com]
To: [ally--rebol--com]
cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US)
Subject: [ALLY] Email and Proxies
Holger,
I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own stupidity.
I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people
how powerful Rebol is. It failed.
After about an hour I found out why.
I recently changed my 'user.r' to use generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a
Netscape Proxy server. This proxy server does not allow mail out. Mail is
handled by another machine. Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy
server at all. The reason why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net'
to go to the socks server and all was well. Works like the Champ that
it is. Something tells me you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP.
Or, it really is some kind of bug.
TIA,
Greg Piney
Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
[3/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 13:14
Wrong answer.
My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears
that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy
if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a
proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for
routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into
the Browser as part of auto configuration. The
browser can then determine which addresses are
'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are
sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard
setup for a large corporation.
The real answer here is that Rebol should not
proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that
service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't
handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher
should be sent to a proxy. All other services should
be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for
that service.
Greg Piney
S&P Web Engineering
Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM
To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]
cc: [ally--rebol--com]
Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies
[holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago stating that
you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or
socks5
Here is the URL to his archived msg.
http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] >[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on
08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM
>Please respond to [ally--rebol--com]
<<quoted lines omitted: 16>>
>Greg Piney
>Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer]
free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com
free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com
; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.
[4/8] from: hopeless:eircom at: 31-Aug-2000 18:45
I'm only a newbie, but according to the REBOL official guide you can
selectively disable proxies for each protocol by doing
/system/schemes/smtp/proxy/host: false
/system/schemes/smtp/proxy/port-id: false
/system/schemes/smtp/proxy/type: false
This worked for me as I had the same problem (I think)
Jamie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] [mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]]
<<quoted lines omitted: 32>>
> socks5
> Here is the URL to his archived msg.
http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] >[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on
08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM
>Please respond to [ally--rebol--com]
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
>Holger,
>I was trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own
stupidity.
>I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to show some people
>how powerful Rebol is. It failed.
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
>Greg Piney
>Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer]
free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com
free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com
; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.
[5/8] from: christmn:clackamas:ds:adp at: 31-Aug-2000 11:06
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html
Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid:: password :: bypass
rules.
It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy settings and not
defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy, etc. In the absence
of
defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default settings. In addition,
if
you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme, you can set the
proxy settings
to false.
----- Original Message -----
From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]
To: [list--rebol--com]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:
Wrong answer.
My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears
that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy
if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a
proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for
routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into
the Browser as part of auto configuration. The
browser can then determine which addresses are
'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are
sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard
setup for a large corporation.
The real answer here is that Rebol should not
proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that
service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't
handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher
should be sent to a proxy. All other services should
be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for
that service.
Greg Piney
S&P Web Engineering
Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM
To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]
cc: [ally--rebol--com]
Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies
[holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago stating that
you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or
socks5
Here is the URL to his archived msg.
http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html
>===== Original Message From [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] =====
>[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56 PM
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
>Greg Piney
>Standard and Poor's Web Engineering
terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com] perl-refugee myth-gamer]
free-email: http://www.MailAndNews.com
free-usenet: http://www.mailAndNews.com
; all the above is real REBOL code, believe it or not.
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out <A
href="http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html">http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type ::
userid:: password :: bypass rules.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It appears that you are just setting your
system/schemes/default/proxy settings and not</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>defining any of the individual protocols -
system/schemes/smtp/proxy, etc. In the absence of</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the
default settings. In addition, if</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular
scheme, you can set the proxy settings</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>to false.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]
href="mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]">[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=[list--rebol--com]
href="mailto:[list--rebol--com]">[list--rebol--com]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:14
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies
Re:</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>Wrong answer.<BR>My SMTP server is 'local'
on the WAN. It appears<BR>that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy<BR>if
you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a<BR>proxy, not a firewall. We use
a 'pac' file for<BR>routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into<BR>the
Browser as part of auto configuration. The<BR>browser can then determine which
addresses are<BR>'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses
are<BR>sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard<BR>setup for a large
corporation.<BR>The real answer here is that Rebol should not<BR>proxy a
service unless proxy is defined for that<BR>service. Especially those a 'cern'
proxy doesn't<BR>handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher<BR>should be
sent to a proxy. All other services should<BR>be sent direct unless a SOCKS
proxy is defined for<BR>that service.<BR><BR>Greg Piney<BR>S&P Web
Engineering<BR><BR>Terrence Brannon <<A
href="mailto:[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]">[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]</A>
> on
08/31/2000 10:45:04 AM<BR><BR><BR><BR>To: Greg <A
href="mailto:Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]">Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]</A><BR>cc:
<A href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR><BR>Subject: RE:
[REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><A
href="mailto:[holger--rebol--com]">[holger--rebol--com]</A> sent a msg to the REBOL
list about 2-3 days ago stating that<BR>you cannot access external smtp
servers across a cern firewall, only socks4 or<BR>socks5<BR><BR>Here is the
URL to his archived msg.<BR><BR><A
href="http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html">http://rebol.org/userlist/archive/315/656.html</A><BR><BR>>=====
Original Message From <A
href="mailto:[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]">[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]</A>
=====<BR>>[greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] on 08/29/2000 03:27:56
PM<BR>>Please respond to <A
href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>To:
<A href="mailto:[ally--rebol--com]">[ally--rebol--com]</A><BR>>cc: (bcc: Greg
Piney/McGraw-Hill/US)<BR>><BR>>Subject: [ALLY] Email and
Proxies<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Holger,<BR>><BR>>I was
trying to show off Rebol and ran into either a bug or my own
stupidity.<BR>><BR>>I was trying to send a simple email (one liner) to
show some people<BR>>how powerful Rebol is. It failed.<BR>>After about
an hour I found out why.<BR>><BR>>I recently changed my 'user.r' to use
generic (Cern) proxy. We are behind a<BR>>Netscape Proxy server. This proxy
server does not allow mail out. Mail is<BR>>handled by another machine.
Most mail clients do not talk to the proxy<BR>>server at all. The reason
why I say this is that I changed my 'set-net'<BR>>to go to the socks server
and all was well. Works like the Champ that<BR>>it is. Something tells me
you need a 'proxy/noproxy' setting in SMTP.<BR>>Or, it really is some kind
of bug.<BR>><BR>>TIA,<BR>><BR>>Greg Piney<BR>>Standard and
Poor's Web Engineering<BR><BR>terrence-brannon: [[princepawn--yahoo--com]
perl-refugee myth-gamer]<BR>free-email: <A
href="http://www.MailAndNews.com">http://www.MailAndNews.com</A><BR>free-usenet:
<A href="http://www.mailAndNews.com">http://www.mailAndNews.com</A><BR>; all
the above is real REBOL code, believe it or
not.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_00D0_01C0133B.89451CA0--
[6/8] from: ssayer:acuson at: 31-Aug-2000 14:50
Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe
what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for
REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected
proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or
socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for
schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably,
SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies.
I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I
either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the
assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure
the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the
other schemes that can't use that proxy.
Later,
Stephen
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:
[7/8] from: greg_piney:mcgraw-hill at: 31-Aug-2000 16:24
Thank you Stephen for putting it so well.
If a proxy is specified in 'set-net', Rebol
should only 'turn it on' for HTTP, FTP, and
Gopher. All other services should remain false.
This scenario would cover 90+ percent of
proxy users. It would also make distribution of
Rebol apps easier as less customization would be
required by the end user.
Greg Piney
S&P Web Engineering
[ssayer--acuson--com] on 08/31/2000 02:50:16 PM
Please respond to [list--rebol--com]
To: [list--rebol--com]
cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US)
Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(3)
Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe
what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for
REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected
proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or
socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for
schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably,
SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies.
I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I
either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the
assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure
the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the
other schemes that can't use that proxy.
Later,
Stephen
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:
[8/8] from: christmn:clackamas:ds:adp at: 31-Aug-2000 16:32
Possibly, but I would have to disagree to a point. I have friends and
family that work for Intel, Microsfot, IBM, Cisco, HP, and Fujitsu. And
even though a lot of originizations have a standard proxy that handles
HTTP, FTP, GOPHER, there are many that do not.
Three friends I have at Intel all have different proxies for FTP and
HTTP and NNTP. The friend that works at IBM has a separate FTP proxy
from his HTTP proxy. I thought that most orginizations had standard
proxy as described, but as I inquired amongst the tech people I know, I
found out that a much larger percentage of the tech and especially
the R&D world do not. Many sites separate out HTTP traffic from FTP
traffic. Many don't. It depends on the bandwidth and policies of the
orginization. Not to mention resources (money). Perhaps it would be
nice to change the installation prompting. Edit rebol.r in REBOL_HOME
and add the questions you want and and have it set the protocols as
such.
You also have to look at 90% of the Internet Users ( Joe Surfer at
home ). The way it is setup with a default for all, suffices just fine
through an ISP. Probably 90% of all apps will be used under one of two
scenarios; Joe Surfer at home or Joe Worker behind a firewall. For Joe
Worker, behind a firewall, 90% of any Apps they would run, I would hope
would be within the firewall and not outside of it. For the other 10%,
well I guess that's what tech people are for, to help set things up
properly. I think that overall it is setup correctly. If it suffices for
90% of all potential users and the other 10% need protocol refinements,
then the global system default should be where it is at. My only fault
with this would be that the set-user function out of rebol.r should
possibly prompt for the individual protocols after prompting and setting
the system/schemes/default/proxy. set-user should ask 'Use defualt proxy
for protocol 'XXXX' (Y/n/disable)? If you answer yes then it should
similarly ask for all fields of the protocol 'host' 'port-id' 'user'
'pass' 'type' 'bypass' . Your average user though will not have any idea
on how to set these up or what they even mean. The 'View' installation
is probalby what will eventually be the interface for most apps and I
would suppose that looking at the recent Beta [Prefs] button, that you
could write your app to display any and all system settings in a type of
control panel and just use radio buttons to enable/disable, use
default/custom proxy settings on individual protocols and have text
fields displayed for the settings.
The rest of the areas where you may need proxy settings for apps is on
servers themselves ( http w/ rebol cgi ) ( rebol servers ) and if you
don't know how to setup proxy access from the server through the
firewall securely after reading the network documentation (which is
really straight forward), then you need to show the network
documentation to your own LAN/WAN tech people so that they can help you
out.
----- Original Message -----
From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com]
To: [list--rebol--com]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 1:24 PM
Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(4)
Thank you Stephen for putting it so well.
If a proxy is specified in 'set-net', Rebol
should only 'turn it on' for HTTP, FTP, and
Gopher. All other services should remain false.
This scenario would cover 90+ percent of
proxy users. It would also make distribution of
Rebol apps easier as less customization would be
required by the end user.
Greg Piney
S&P Web Engineering
[ssayer--acuson--com] on 08/31/2000 02:50:16 PM
Please respond to [list--rebol--com]
To: [list--rebol--com]
cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US)
Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(3)
Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe
what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for
REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected
proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or
socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for
schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably,
SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies.
I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and
I
either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the
assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or
configure
the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the
other schemes that can't use that proxy.
Later,
Stephen
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:
> Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out
http://www.rebol.com/docs/network.html
> Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid::
password ::
bypass rules.
> It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy
settings and not
> defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy,
etc. In
the absence of
> defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default
settings. In addition, if
> you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme,
you can
set the proxy settings
> to false.
> ----- Original Message -----
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> S&P Web Engineering
> Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04
AM
>
> To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL]
> cc: [ally--rebol--com]
>
> Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies
>
> [holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago
stating
that
> you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only
socks4
or
Notes
- Quoted lines have been omitted from some messages.
View the message alone to see the lines that have been omitted