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[REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(5)

From: christmn:clackamas:ds:adp at: 31-Aug-2000 16:32

Possibly, but I would have to disagree to a point. I have friends and family that work for Intel, Microsfot, IBM, Cisco, HP, and Fujitsu. And even though a lot of originizations have a standard proxy that handles HTTP, FTP, GOPHER, there are many that do not. Three friends I have at Intel all have different proxies for FTP and HTTP and NNTP. The friend that works at IBM has a separate FTP proxy from his HTTP proxy. I thought that most orginizations had standard proxy as described, but as I inquired amongst the tech people I know, I found out that a much larger percentage of the tech and especially the R&D world do not. Many sites separate out HTTP traffic from FTP traffic. Many don't. It depends on the bandwidth and policies of the orginization. Not to mention resources (money). Perhaps it would be nice to change the installation prompting. Edit rebol.r in REBOL_HOME and add the questions you want and and have it set the protocols as such. You also have to look at 90% of the Internet Users ( Joe Surfer at home ). The way it is setup with a default for all, suffices just fine through an ISP. Probably 90% of all apps will be used under one of two scenarios; Joe Surfer at home or Joe Worker behind a firewall. For Joe Worker, behind a firewall, 90% of any Apps they would run, I would hope would be within the firewall and not outside of it. For the other 10%, well I guess that's what tech people are for, to help set things up properly. I think that overall it is setup correctly. If it suffices for 90% of all potential users and the other 10% need protocol refinements, then the global system default should be where it is at. My only fault with this would be that the set-user function out of rebol.r should possibly prompt for the individual protocols after prompting and setting the system/schemes/default/proxy. set-user should ask 'Use defualt proxy for protocol 'XXXX' (Y/n/disable)? If you answer yes then it should similarly ask for all fields of the protocol 'host' 'port-id' 'user' 'pass' 'type' 'bypass' . Your average user though will not have any idea on how to set these up or what they even mean. The 'View' installation is probalby what will eventually be the interface for most apps and I would suppose that looking at the recent Beta [Prefs] button, that you could write your app to display any and all system settings in a type of control panel and just use radio buttons to enable/disable, use default/custom proxy settings on individual protocols and have text fields displayed for the settings. The rest of the areas where you may need proxy settings for apps is on servers themselves ( http w/ rebol cgi ) ( rebol servers ) and if you don't know how to setup proxy access from the server through the firewall securely after reading the network documentation (which is really straight forward), then you need to show the network documentation to your own LAN/WAN tech people so that they can help you out. ----- Original Message ----- From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] To: [list--rebol--com] Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 1:24 PM Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(4) Thank you Stephen for putting it so well. If a proxy is specified in 'set-net', Rebol should only 'turn it on' for HTTP, FTP, and Gopher. All other services should remain false. This scenario would cover 90+ percent of proxy users. It would also make distribution of Rebol apps easier as less customization would be required by the end user. Greg Piney S&P Web Engineering [ssayer--acuson--com] on 08/31/2000 02:50:16 PM Please respond to [list--rebol--com] To: [list--rebol--com] cc: (bcc: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/US) Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re:(3) Most of us are aware of the work around for this behaviour but I believe what Greg was actually suggesting is that it would be more useful for REBOL to set up it's proxy configuration more correctly for the selected proxy type. That is go ahead and load the defaults perhaps for cern or socks, but insert false value assignment statements in the user.r for schemes that are not typically handled by that proxy type. Most notably, SMTP for example wouldn't be handled by cern or generic proxies. I have to sympathize in this regard as I use the generic proxy type and I either have to configure REBOL when prompted for no proxy then add the assignments for the one scheme (HTTP) that requires the proxy or configure the proxy settings then go back and add false assignments for all the other schemes that can't use that proxy. Later, Stephen On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [christmn--clackamas--ds--adp--com] wrote:
> Rebol does do all that you expound on. Check out
> Every protocol can have its own, proxy :: port :: type :: userid::
password :: bypass rules.
> It appears that you are just setting your system/schemes/default/proxy
settings and not
> defining any of the individual protocols - system/schemes/smtp/proxy,
etc. In the absence of
> defining any individual protocol settings, rebol then uses the default
settings. In addition, if
> you want to entirely disable proxy settings for a particular scheme,
you can set the proxy settings
> to false. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [greg_piney--mcgraw-hill--com] > To: [list--rebol--com] > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:14 AM > Subject: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies Re: > > Wrong answer. > My SMTP server is 'local' on the WAN. It appears > that all IP traffic gets routed to the proxy > if you define it in set-net. Our cern proxy is a > proxy, not a firewall. We use a 'pac' file for > routing. This 'pac' file is usually loaded into > the Browser as part of auto configuration. The > browser can then determine which addresses are > 'direct' (no proxy - on the WAN). All other addresses are > sent to the proxy. This is a pretty standard > setup for a large corporation. > The real answer here is that Rebol should not > proxy a service unless proxy is defined for that > service. Especially those a 'cern' proxy doesn't > handle. By default, only HTTP, FTP, and gopher > should be sent to a proxy. All other services should > be sent direct unless a SOCKS proxy is defined for > that service. > > Greg Piney > S&P Web Engineering > > Terrence Brannon <[princepawn--MailAndNews--com]> on 08/31/2000 10:45:04
> > To: Greg Piney/McGraw-Hill/[US--MCGRAW-HILL] > cc: [ally--rebol--com] > > Subject: RE: [REBOL] [ALLY] Email and Proxies > > [holger--rebol--com] sent a msg to the REBOL list about 2-3 days ago
stating that
> you cannot access external smtp servers across a cern firewall, only
socks4 or