Rebol and 3D
[1/6] from: reffy:ulrich at: 19-Sep-2002 9:13
Hi list,
Are there plans for 3D in Rebol?
Dick
[2/6] from: info:id-net:ch at: 20-Sep-2002 9:09
I know that Olivier Auverlot, one of the best french expert, had made a long
work to create 3D Dialect in Rebol. He told me that he waited the new
version of VID to go ahead with his work.
Philippe
[3/6] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 20-Sep-2002 11:01
IMO Current state(and probably state of few another near future View
releases) of compositing and DRAW dialect engine in Rebol/View is not able
to handle more than a few solid filled polygons in small size so don't
expect better 3D graphics than in Amiga demos or vector games in early 90's.
We need better framebuffer routines, HW acceleration support on OSes where
it is possible, enhanced/improved DRAW, native support for computation of
matrices etc. to achieve at least VRML 3D quality in Rebol.
regards,
Cyphre
[4/6] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 20-Sep-2002 11:32
Well, they (RT) can start by removing present bugs - outlined polygon
has outline color alaways set to 'none (so you can see thru borders of
polygon), drawing something bigger than your face makes rebol really
unhappy so it crashes etc... I was working on 3D in REBOL sometimes, the
result is on my REB (sites/rebolek/matrix) but I've stop development
after discovering those nasty bugs.
bye, bolek
[5/6] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 20-Sep-2002 12:06
Boleslav Brezovsky wrote:
>Well, they (RT) can start by removing present bugs - outlined polygon
>has outline color alaways set to 'none (so you can see thru borders of
>polygon), drawing something bigger than your face makes rebol really
>unhappy so it crashes etc... I was working on 3D in REBOL sometimes, the
>result is on my REB (sites/rebolek/matrix) but I've stop development
>after discovering those nasty bugs.
>
wait - there are bugs in Rebol? :-) If you found some - send report to
RT feedback. Maybe you should set small script which will do so
periodically, as I believe you already did so, without any kind of reply
other than ml automat, with the same bugs present with every new release
.... ;-)
What could be a conclusion? RT surely knows about those bugs ... the
problem is probably called priority list - drawing, 3D, multimedia
altogether are not interesting for IOS customers, so we will probably
have to wait .... the question is - how long?
-pekr-
[6/6] from: jason::cunliffe::verizon::net at: 20-Sep-2002 6:16
> IMO Current state(and probably state of few another near future View
> releases) of compositing and DRAW dialect engine in Rebol/View is not able
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> it is possible, enhanced/improved DRAW, native support for computation of
> matrices etc. to achieve at least VRML 3D quality in Rebol.
right.. I imagine it can be no better than Flash3D. Some cool stuff there, nice
ideas, very talented programming. Lots of people have learned to think about 3D
engines by trying to Flash3D. But still very much toys. good designs can make
good use. But its not serious at all. Its best when very abstract, for little
widgets and stuff or things which are 2D imagery but moved around in semi-3d
paradigm to handle scaling, depth and blur or alpha value changes. Some of that
looks really good.
There was that brilliant guru in New Zealand, Che Tamahori, who pioneered
beautiful work with Director3D in Lingo about 6 years ago, before anyone thought
it was possible. Or had seen any of that. He was the first to get smart and use
blur and alpha to create a sense of depth of field. All other 3D still sucks
because its too fucking crisp.
Still worth looking at...
http://www.lingoparadise.com/articles/
http://www.lingoparadise.com/articles/che/index.htm
see down through all his steps to 'Combining Ingredients'
That's I suppose what REBOL can do today
VET rocks though :-)
http://developer.viewpoint.com
Apart from the incredible smooth level of detail zooming they do with texture
maps, VET has this great soft shadows thing going and sweet transparency. Also
it the ONLY one which does not clutter up your screen with endless ad-toting
promo-bloating window like RealNetworks or WindowsMedia. In fact VET is smart
and beautiful because 3D objects float right over the rest of the web page if
you let them.
The best is to load up Poser4Pro and then export a human animation into VET.
It's a huge amount of work to get these 3D players going, especially to really
test and debug all the file format import/export and optimizations and version
madness. For RT or even Macromedia its a giant and risky undertaking. I guess
that MM will eventually import Director's 3D into Flash, but I would not be
surprised if they ended up buying into VET's instead. Their big problem is
keeping the player penetration solid and consistent. If they pile on features,
it bloats and they end up with a painfully fragmented user runtime base. Then
everyone gets pissed. Mercifully FLashMX [6] is so good, that people are going
for it. They can do lots of innovation on the Authoring and server sides, but
have to be very conservative on for player increments. Most of their upgrades
are bug fixes except for the big ones.
./Jason
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