Rebol vs SARS
[1/9] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 2-May-2003 16:44
Another article - tongue in cheek : http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/Lessons+for+Rebol+from+the+SARS+epidemic -- Graham Chiu http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/
[2/9] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 2-May-2003 8:58
Interesting article, Graham. A long but necessary introduction land us to the main idea, wich i believe is true : So, what is the lesson for Rebol? Rebol is currently marketed under the viral marketing" (...) But Rebol is clearly a product of low infectivity, and (...) we can conclude that it will never become popular because of it's low infectivity." Once you have "contracted" this virus, it's for life... REBOL is very addictive, but you're right : it's infectivity is low. RT marketing should take great care of the infectivity factor. Some months ago i tried to start a private discussion about Rebol marketing with Carl, with this idea in mind. He read my message and promised a response, but i never get one. I also sent him references of the two book i found interesting about "small worlds" and new network science : ** Mark Buchanan "NEXUS small worlds and the groundbreaking science of networks" ISBN 0-393-04153-0 ** Albert-Laszlo Barabasi "LINKED The new science of networks" ISBN 0-7382-0667-9 I hope this way of seeing things will get its path in the minds ;-) Thanks for the article. Renaud GOMBERT -------------------------------- www.essentiel.net N° SIRET : 418 620 159 N° MdA : G316527 NAF/APE : 923A résidence secondaire : www.frenchcinema4d.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Chiu" <[gchiu--compkarori--co--nz]>
> Another article - tongue in cheek : >
[3/9] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 2-May-2003 21:52
On Fri, 2 May 2003 08:58:34 +0200 "Renaud GOMBERT" <[rgombert--essentiel--net]> wrote:
>Interesting article, Graham. A long but necessary >introduction land us to >the main idea, wich i believe is true :
Yes, I suspected that sciam would not put this article on line freely ... http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=000312F5-B86B-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000 and that is the case. And what you do read from their summary discloses little.
>Once you have "contracted" this virus, it's for life... >REBOL is very >addictive, but you're right : it's infectivity is low. RT >marketing should >take great care of the infectivity factor.
Is the infectivity rate 1%, .01% or lower :( People often complain on how hard it is to "get" Rebol.
>** Albert-Laszlo Barabasi "LINKED The new science of >networks" ISBN >0-7382-0667-9
He's one of the co-authors of the above article. I guess Carl was just too busy to follow up.
>I hope this way of seeing things will get its path in the >minds ;-)
Me too :) -- Graham Chiu http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/
[4/9] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 2-May-2003 8:39
Hi Graham, Great article graham, and I agree. -- Gregg
[5/9] from: ishtahara:yaho:o at: 2-May-2003 9:12
What has to be done is to infect a major node. --taken from: Lessons for Rebol from the SARS epidemic IMO, Carl is the closest thing to a major node in this community. I think he should try a web journal on Reboltech -- similar to what Paul Graham, Ray Ozzie, Dave Weiner, Joel Spolsky and Philip Greenspun have done with some success. Most of these bloggers are adding value to the web while also promoting their products/agendas. It does work! If you are well respected and have deep experience that others would benefit from, put it out there for all to see on the web (not IOS or AltMe, for obvious reasons). That is how one leverages the web as a viral network. No offense to Carl or RT. Writing good content takes time, and it often involves going on the record with your opinions (which if done wrong can work against you). I'm sure Carl prefers to work on inventing the future instead of writing about it. RT doesn't have $$ to take out SuperBowl ads, so it's probably worth considering. ~~D --- Graham Chiu wrote:
[6/9] from: tofo:695online at: 2-May-2003 15:14
On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 04:44:56PM +1200, Graham Chiu wrote:
> Another article - tongue in cheek : >
Good Article. let me zero in on this line from it: It's also doubtful that making it open source to appeal to the hacker community will have much of a benefit. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. Why would that not be a benefit? The programmers that I know can already make (whatever language) flow from their fingertips. No matter how great rebol is, or what benefits it offers, it's been very difficult for me to get them to care. I don't mean to be contrary at all. This is simply what I have observed. Even if opening up rebol is not the end-all solution to widening rebol's appeal, it would probably help. -- signature angry: "grrrrr" -tom
[7/9] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 3-May-2003 9:14
On Fri, 2 May 2003 15:14:39 -0400 Tom Foster <[tofo--695online--com]> wrote:
>Good Article. let me zero in on this line from it: >It's also doubtful that making it open source to appeal
<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>>solution to widening >rebol's appeal, it would probably help.
hehe. I put that line in, even though I did not truly believe it, to provoke some more discussion. Naughty of me. Here's Paul Graham's viewpoint on what makes a language popular: http://www.paulgraham.com/paulgraham/popular.html But is open source truly a necessity? Was it necessary for TurboPascal, visual basic? May be that times have changed and now open source is an essential requirement, but my take is that getting major nodes or influential people may be far more important than open sourcing. But if the influential people are also advocates of open source, then we may have a problem. The other problem is how to identify major nodes... -- Graham Chiu http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/ Rebol Encyclpaedia Project
[8/9] from: chris::langreiter::com at: 3-May-2003 17:35
Re: Rebol vs SARS / Great Program Theory
> The other problem is how to identify major nodes...
And of course convincing those nodes of the virtues of REBOL ;-) I think that writing great programs is still the best way to convince people of the value of a development "environment". And writing great programs in REBOL is STILL severely hampered by a few, little (?), often-talked-about-before - but most critical - annoyances: - /View performance for anything else than vaguely form-based applications is not exactly thrilling. Flash is MUCH better for rich media content. - Environment blend-in (Priority 1: Windows, Priority 2: MacOS X, Priority 3: Gnome/KDE/X) is hard to achieve (much harder than with REALbasic for example). That is: - Use of environment facilities (widgets, dialogs, click protocols etc.) - Availability of rich widgets (like an RTF-level text editor, standard in NeXTSTEP since, what, 1987?) - ... - Unicode is a must in today's networked word, like this funky signage or not. - Ease of Shell- and C-level extension (must buy /Pro, where is Core/Pro for Unices? Do I have to buy Command for calling out to grep? SDK? Callbacks?) PLUS there is a severe lack of perceivable strategy. Is IOS developed further? Is anyone still working full-time on REBOL, the language? Etc. As said before, nothing new, but (most unfortunately) still true ... As long as those shortcomings aren't rectified in one form or another, I find it hard to convince _any_ node, be it major or not, of the viability of this great language (and yes, I think that open-sourcing REBOL would help more than not, although it certainly would require a lot of effort to come from the most diverse parties of interest). -- Chris
[9/9] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 4-May-2003 9:03
On Sat, 3 May 2003 17:35:11 +0200 Christian Langreiter <[chris--langreiter--com]> wrote:
>> The other problem is how to identify major nodes... > >And of course convincing those nodes of the virtues of >REBOL ;-) > >I think that writing great programs is still the best way >to convince
<snip> rebol deficiencies </snip> If we accept the thesis and conclusion, there are two main possiblities. One I already mentioned. The other is, following the same metaphor, to mutate Rebol into a beast of greater infectivity and virulence whereby even a knowledge of Lisp/Python will not provide immunity :) A more virulent Rebol will include: ( Add your favourite feature request here ...) -- Graham Chiu
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