[REBOL] Re: oss revisited (briefly!) -- GROOVY
From: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 17-Feb-2004 16:18
> > I disagree. Java seems to be doing much *better* these days.
> > Lots of cool
> > projects and people building frameworks which interoperate.
>
> that's news to me... thanks for setting records straight !
> I guess I'm burying myself too deeply in python and rebol.
>
> Is it still slow?
I don't know. I am not a Java programmer.
But some good indicators I use are quality and scope new Java books,
including the excellent "Head First Java".
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/hfjava/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596004656/002-3360361-8744060?v=glance
Possibly there will be a Python version of that before long. Of course I'd
love to see a "Head First Rebol" on the shelves next to them :-)
And handful of Java goodies for example..
JSyn - java audio synthesis
http://www.softsynth.com/jsyn/
JMSL - Java Musical Specification Language [Java port of older Amiga JForth
framework]
http://www.algomusic.com/jmsl/
Bill Hibberd's VisAD
VisAD is a Java component library for interactive and collaborative
visualization and analysis of numerical data. The name VisAD is an acronym
for
Visualization for Algorithm Development"."
http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~billh/visad.html
Eclipse
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/index.html
OpenIM - Java Jabber server
http://www.open-im.net/en/
OpenMap - Java Geography
http://backspaces.net/blogs/JavaGIS/
Natalia and Gennady Andrienko's GIS projects
http://allanon.gmd.de/and/and.html
> > Also iirc Jscript was/is M$ version of Javascript [ECMA 262]-
> > *not* Java.
>
> I know, but newbies don't always, and this is one of the forms of deceit I
meant being used by M$. Its like if M$ invented a new language (yet again)
and called it rebolScript.
Yes but it was Netscape who came up with daft and very confusing
'Javascript' name. Originally it was called 'Livescript' or something like
that c.1996. Even at that time it would have been better to have just called
it 'WebScript or 'BrowserScript'.
> > Now appearing as Jscript.NET
> > http://www.gotdotnet.com/team/jscript/
> >
>
> .NET: because no one had yet reached this level of bloat.
Today I am not pro or con .NET for the simple selfish reason that I run
important apps on Win32 which now offer scripting API. These happened fairly
quickly, and I think in part that is thanks to .NET saving the
developers/vendors a lot of time and hassle to expose their tools.
But yes I assume from the moment I turn on my WinXP machine in the morning
that I am running on top of a lot of M$ bloat. But it works and many good
apps even work really well. Optimally - no way.
<rant>But for the same reason I am gonna vote whatever candidate the Dems
put up in November to get GWBush and his evil gang of greed out of office.
It's a pragmatic strategic vote only. A change is better than none at this
moment. Do I think the next president and this regime will be much better.
We'll see. Do I think Democracy is broken and needs reinventing -- you
betcha!
</rant>
> rebol's SYNTAX (or lack of) is its main feature. The fact that referring
to a function and a variable IN EXACTLY the same syntax, allows MANY code
tricks. The fact that code IS data (even the currently executing one) also
sets it apart.
> In this arena, rebol is still king IMO. imagine trying to generate
dynamic nested code in python... It must be a nightmare!
Yes I agree.
But isn't that partly because REBOL is a functional language in many
respects. ie, isn't the same true of ML and family?
http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh//faq.html
http://www.dcs.napier.ac.uk/course-notes/sml/introfp.htm
And there is recursion technique in Python which might be used to great
effect. I like Python very much. I always see it as a highly readable
language. So in general python programmers seem to strive for simple
legibility instead of being extra clever or super condensed. Python code is
linear and function is equally visibly at all times. Rebol can be
beautifully concise but also often hard to know what to expect.
The interesting to me is how well in comparison Rebol scales and maintains
legibility for other programmers.
For authors, it is wonderful especially interactively. And very hard to look
at other languages with all that damn punctuation they probably don't really
need. Gotta love Python's white space indentation though.
I crudely summed this difference up some time ago by saying that Python is
a reader's language, while Rebol is a writer's one. The same used to be said
of FORTH also.
what do you think?
cheers
- Jason
