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[REBOL] Re: Cookbook submissions idea

From: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 12-Jan-2004 21:18

Petr Krenzelok wrote:
> sorry to snip your whole talk about Vanilla. While Vanilla or Wiki, > whatever may be nice design to study, I think you overestimate its > usefullness for Rebol. I am sorry to very strongly back-up Robert's pov, > but I can bet that if free version of IOS like sync mechanism would > exist, much cooler scenarios could be created - with rebol, for rebol -
Hey no problem Petr. Thanks I really welcome different perspectives. I am sure much cooler scenarios could be created IF..if ..if ..if you're right. And believe me I have plenty of my own big dreams for years about multi-user messaging applications. It's what led me to Rebol :-) The web is extremely useful and I don't think it is going away. Interoperability is good. There is [hopefully] gainful employment to be had. I am also a big fan for years of desktop peer-peer apps which co-habit seamlessly with the web and each other. For example, I tried to do that with Zope in an EU-funded project 5 years ago. My design had a single download/install .exe which included Zope so that we could multi-user collaboration for off-line and online access. Many end-users only had occasional dial-up modem access. What is nice is that Zope bundles several servers FTP, WebDav, http, and can be remotely controlled by XML-RPC also. The project was for inter-modal transportation and needed to interface shippers, agents, truckers in several countries and juggling shifting calendars against itinerary and capacity.User interface was html + flash, with extra shipping database in BerkeleyDB wrapped as Zope product. Good ideas but too steep learning curve, too soon for the technologies used. Not enough other Python/Zope/Flash people in the project. So one painful lesson for me was that if you use a rare/new technology/paradigm you have to cover yourself and make sure it interfaces well with other mainstream systems as much as possible, and/or is completely transparent. Anyway I just like Vanilla. And after expecially Zope I adore its simplicity, though cannot compare them. I see personally see quite a bit of untapped potential in its design. I have some ideas about websites which I want to explore. And since Vanilla is written in Rebol, I can hope that someday Vanilla or something like it will also talk more with other cool rebol developments. Like Easy-Vid :-) I wish oh wish that there was a better solution than the feeble cgi dependency which vanilla has now. I wish there were a mega cool rebol universal server framework --- http, ftp, rebol, XMPP[jabber], plugin-architecture modular, cross-platform,fast install, etc. But there are simply too few experienced rebol programmers out there. You are all very talented and dedicated, but only so many hours in all our lifetimes. And few eyes yet to support documentation, testing, fixes, all that must go into building the momentum which the best openSource projects enjoy. So yes it's very hard to make progress. But we each are working on areas we feel motivated to. I am not a very good coder. I wish I was better and faster. So much I want to build. One reason I like Vanilla is that it is quite easy for me to extend. There is a framework I mostly understand now. Hacking Vanilla has helped me learn rebol a little and provided motivation and satisfaction. I don't know how long before I move on from thinking about Vanilla honestly. Speed and scalibility worry me. If I was smart I'd just use some Python or learn PHP and pick a tool that already everything and play with them. But trouble is I am hooked on Rebol/Vanilla. If I don't get some very so often I get the blues.. Do you know a doctor who can help me? And besides Gerard was looking for a platform/site to host beginner rebol help. One of the big problems still is that rebol is badly off the google radar. That's pretty bad for beginners. is great progress though. btw Google for some reasons seems to like Vanilla.... :-) - Jason