[REBOL] Re: Development rebol scripts on Linux
From: carl:cybercraft at: 19-Nov-2007 12:10
On Saturday, 17-Novenber-2007 at 10:59:28 Tim Johnson wrote,
>> ><rant>IMHO this is one of the reasons that my
>> >county (USA) is losing programming jobs - to much
>> >desire for stimulus on the part of younger generations.
>> The kids are aways right Tim - never forget that! ;-)
>> And they have a point. They might not know how to say it, but they'd
>> instinctively know that it'd be much easier and faster to create a GUI
>> using point & click than by typing. A mouse & GUI will have been the only
>> way 90% of them have ever got things done on a computer, since that's been
>> the default interface on personal computers for over 20 years now.
> It is not a matter of being *right* or *wrong* it's about a mindset.
> One has *got* to be able to focus on algorithms.
But before that they have to be persuaded that they'll like programming. It's like the
old problem of throwing Shakespeare at students before they're ready for him - they just
end up hating Shakespeare. You can't avoid having to learn how to develope algorithms
if you want to create programs. But if kids start with designing GUIs first, by the
time they're forced to drill down to the coding level to make their GUIs work, they'll
actually have a real incentive to learn how to program - namely the getting their GUIs
> BTW1: I came to rebol from C++ builder with a background in combining
> drag-and-drop with coding.
> I'm well aware of the economics. JKG might have suggested that the world
> needs a global monetary standard to level the playing field, but that
> is beyond me.
> I stand by my contention that you have to be able to free onself from the
> temptation of high stimulus to really use your imagination.
> Look at what Einstein did - and a lot of what he came up with happened
> when he was hiking in the Alps.
Well of course - nothing acting on his senses up there...
But by your argument, he should've stayed home staring at nothing but flat surfaces with
That said, there's also fundamentally different kinds of people about, and I'm apparently
a very visual type of one. There's tests online which measure such things, and I always
come out as a heavily visual kind of thinker, as apposed to those who think with words.
(Which I don't understand at all!) Your milage may vary...
> I grew up on a farm,, most of my family still farms and I've done my share
>of bushwhacking and subsistance living. Amazing ideas have come out
>of the austere life led on the central plains of the North American
>continent. And other rural open environments as well.
Meaning you're not far removed from those Asian coders who're very well aware what subsistance
living means. Most of the young in the West are a few generations removed from knowing
what a day or a week behind a plow is like though, so fear of returning to that won't
motivate them. They need incentives.
>The local electric utility routinely train their CAD staff in a special class
>that emphasis the keyboard. They claim that it gives a 30% increase of
>productivity over relying solely on the pointing device.
>I use emacs for coding rebol. I primarily use the keyboard, with the mouse
>as needed and where it works best. Comparing this environment to coding
>in C++ builder is like comparing a sportscar to a truck. Of course trucks
>have their place but since I am a single coder instead of part of a team,
>this works best for me.
But you're not comparing what you should be. You should be comparing REBOL with a hypothetical
REBOL Builder that's as big a productivity gain as REBOL is over C++.
I've never used a GUI designer I liked, but that doesn't stop me knowing a well-written
one would be boon to any language that supports a GUI.
>Nice arguing with you. :-)
>Did you know that J.K. Galbraith and William F. Buckley were best friends?
>WFB describes JKG as his "dearest friend" - think of the arguments they
>must have had.
I don't know Buckley. And a check in Galbraith's memoirs finds only one mention of him
in passing. The book's over 25 years old though, so plenty of time for a friendship
-- Carl Read.