Cross Platform? Then what about Mac OS X?
[1/15] from: lgiddings:optushome:au at: 26-Sep-2002 9:21
After reading the long discussions recently on the
importance/significance of Rebols
multi platform/OS capabilities I am prompted to ask once again when
support for the
Macintosh OS X system might be forth coming?
Considering the Mac community is estimated to be around 25 million users
and there is a strong developer community within that user base
and remembering that the Mac, especially in its new OS X guise is both a
very internet/connection orientated and 'open' system for both
application
and connectivity development.
I really cannot understand the apparent lack of interest in
developing/delivering a
rebol /Core and /View package to support such a large and growing
section of the
computing community. Especially as many of the new Mac OS X users are
switching
not from windows but from Unix and Linux systems which Rebol currently
supports.
IMHO a computer savvy Mac OS X user/developer writing cross platform
rebol apps
to enable them to transfer/re-use their functionality in a Win 98/XP/NT
office, for example,
would appear to be a perfect vehicle for the much discussed break
through of Rebol
to a wider community.
On a personal note my own Rebol aspirations are necessarily on hold
until such time
as I can run Rebol on my operating system of choice..... Mac OS X.
[I can't afford either the money or the time to run a PC just to
develop Rebol apps on]
I know there are a few Mac users around on this ML, but I am sure there
would be
many many more if RT would only support us.....
[2/15] from: laurencegiddings:mac at: 26-Sep-2002 0:59
After reading the long discussions recently on the
importance/significance of Rebols
multi platform/OS capabilities I am prompted to ask once again when
support for the
Macintosh OS X system might be forth coming?
Considering the Mac community is estimated to be around 25 million users
and there is a strong developer community within that user base
and remembering that the Mac, especially in its new OS X guise is both a
very internet/connection orientated and 'open' system for both
application
and connectivity development.
I really cannot understand the apparent lack of interest in
developing/delivering a
rebol /Core and /View package to support such a large and growing
section of the
computing community. Especially as many of the new Mac OS X users are
switching
not from windows but from Unix and Linux systems which Rebol currently
supports.
IMHO a computer savvy Mac OS X user/developer writing cross platform
rebol apps
to enable them to transfer/re-use their functionality in a Win 98/XP/NT
office, for example,
would appear to be a perfect vehicle for the much discussed break
through of Rebol
to a wider community.
On a personal note my own Rebol aspirations are necessarily on hold
until such time
as I can run Rebol on my operating system of choice..... Mac OS X.
[I can't afford either the money or the time to run a PC just to
develop Rebol apps on]
I know there are a few Mac users around on this ML, but I am sure there
would be
many many more if RT would only support us.....
[3/15] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 25-Sep-2002 22:28
Hi Laurence,
I'm not from RT, so this is only my opinion.
I think they would *love* to be able to ship a Mac OSX port of REBOL, but
there are a zillion other things people want as well so they have to
prioritize (heavily I imagine). I think if someone were to finance the
development of the port, it might move up on their list of priorities, maybe
even to the top. :)
Part of the issue might be that OSX, as I understand it - not being a Mac
developer historically, is nothing like earlier mac OSs, correct? It's based
on a mach kernel and so is more like Unix than mac (pre OSX) in many ways.
Maybe that helps since they already have so many Unix ports running, but the
GUI side of things (Cocoa/Carbon is it?) is not just a snazzy X Windowing
System and likely will require a lot of effort to create.
Just my 2 cents.
--Gregg
[4/15] from: carl:cybercraft at: 26-Sep-2002 20:27
On 26-Sep-02, Laurence Giddings wrote:
> After reading the long discussions recently on the
> importance/significance of Rebols
> multi platform/OS capabilities I am prompted to ask once again when
> support for the Macintosh OS X system might be forth coming?
They do specifically say they plan to support OS X in their FAQ...
http://www.rebol.com/faq.html
We like OSX and we are now planning to support REBOL/View and our
other products as well.
That's a different statement to the... "We have REBOL/Core running on
a variety of CE devices. However, porting REBOL/View and related
products to specific platforms is accelerated when a customer or
sponser funds the porting effort." you'll find futher down the page.
So, reading between the lines, I'd say it's now a case of when, not
if. My guess is that it wouldn't make sense to release a version
before the next release of View, so maybe you'll see it then or soon
afterwards. [Disclaimer - just a guess. I have no inside knowledge
on this. I don't even know when then is...]
> I know there are a few Mac users around on this ML, but I am sure
> there would be many many more if RT would only support us.....
I'm sure that's true and I'm sure they know it.
(Then again, I'm sure there'd be more OS X users if Apple would only
support X86...;)
But as others have said, REBOL most definately should be on OS X. "It
feels so empty without you..." (To misquote:)
--
Carl Read
[5/15] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 26-Sep-2002 11:18
Hi Laurence,
On Wednesday, September 25, 2002, 4:59:42 PM, you wrote:
LG> I really cannot understand the apparent lack of interest in
LG> developing/delivering a
LG> rebol /Core and /View package to support such a large and growing
LG> section of the
LG> computing community.
I don't think there is a lack of interest. It's just that RT is
not that easy to fit it into RT's priority list.
Maybe if there's a MacOS X developer here with the required skill,
he could ask RT to do the porting, under NDA etc. This would
benefit both RT and the community, so maybe it could be worked out
somehow...
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer
Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r
[6/15] from: olivier:auverlot:ac-lille at: 26-Sep-2002 11:49
Rebol/View (and Express !) must be adapted to Mac OS X. A lot of programmers
(as me; -)) use Mac OS X now because the system is effective. It is a good
compromise between Windows and Linux. In Europe, it meets an increasing
success.
The Mac OS X versions of Rebol should attract a number important of
programmers.
Regards
Olivier ;-)
[7/15] from: rgaither:triad:rr at: 26-Sep-2002 8:23
> Rebol/View (and Express !) must be adapted to Mac OS X. A lot of
> programmers
> (as me; -)) use Mac OS X now because the system is effective. It is a
> good
> compromise between Windows and Linux. In Europe, it meets an increasing
> success.
Count me as well.
I wasn't ever a Mac person but the combination of Unix and a consumer
quality GUI is superb. I am very glad I made the move, or should I say
switch
. :-)
REBOL is one of two products in my developer toolset that I can no
longer
use. I really need a network capable scripting language too. :-(
Hope RT gets the work done on OS X updates sooner rather than later as
I really need Core and I miss View and IOS/Express.
Rod.
Rod Gaither
[rgaither--triad--rr--com]
Oak Ridge, NC USA
[8/15] from: pwoodward:cncdsl at: 26-Sep-2002 9:52
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Gaither" <[rgaither--triad--rr--com]>
> Hope RT gets the work done on OS X updates sooner rather than later as
> I really need Core and I miss View and IOS/Express.
I wonder if Core for BSD could be ported quickly to OS X? My understanding
is that a lot of BSD stuff recompiles relatively easily under OS X. Lack of
REBOL on OS X is one of the reasons holding me back from "switch"ing.
Mostly I do a lot of Java coding, and I understand that OS X has good
support for that (but my favorite IDE, Eclipse isn't there yet). And I
write REBOL scripts to auto generate Java code pretty frequently; copy and
paste a database table definition from MS-SQL (or any db) to a text file.
Process it with a REBOL script to create class member attributes,
getters/setters, and insert/update methods... Crude, but handy. Someday
I'll just write a Java based meta-data inspector that can autogenerate the
Java code for me. But, given the mixed JDBC support out there, I'm not sure
I'm willing to trust that. It's only now with the JDBC 3.0 spec (where the
drivers are, who knows?) that you can get the autogenerated ID of a just
inserted record w/o using a transaction - something ADO and ODBC have been
doing for years...
Plus I use REBOL scripts to keep tabs on bunches of web sites, and to do web
crawls and misc stuff. It's my prototyping language of choice. Proof of
concepts are pretty easy to do in it, as you're not wrestling with intimate
details in some cases. Still working on a REBOL implementation of the
Gnutella protocol - I can advertise that I'm on the network, get back the
Gnutella OK response, etc. so that's progress. With View/Pro I'm planning
to use the Gnutella protocol to allow for secure sharing of virtual
information... It's an odd project.
Anyhow, that's quite a ramble off of the original OS X inquiry.
- Porter
[9/15] from: rgaither:triad:rr at: 26-Sep-2002 10:34
>> Hope RT gets the work done on OS X updates sooner rather than later as
>> I really need Core and I miss View and IOS/Express.
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> Lack of
> REBOL on OS X is one of the reasons holding me back from "switch"ing.
Core for Mac OS X was/is working with versions prior to Jaguar.
Something small (I hope) broke with the 10.2 release of OS X. RT is
aware of
this and is looking at the issue but no word on when a fix will be
available yet.
Some work was also done on View on OS X (betas I think) - enough for RT
to
say they had some issues, including performance, that needed to be
addressed
before it was an acceptable port.
> Mostly I do a lot of Java coding, and I understand that OS X has good
> support for that (but my favorite IDE, Eclipse isn't there yet). And I
I'm not a Java programmer but the little bit of poking around with it
on OS X
I've done supports that assumption. I'm using ArgoUML and jEdit with no
issues and the Java integration with the Apple tools (Project/Interface
Builder)
is quite impressive.
FWIW, Rod.
Rod Gaither
[rgaither--triad--rr--com]
Oak Ridge, NC USA
[10/15] from: kemp:extelligence at: 26-Sep-2002 11:21
My vote for OS X as well.
I've got a brand-spanking new G4 tower on loan from Apple on my desk right
now, and it ain't goin' back if I can help it!
What I don't understand is all the money and effort Apple's putting into the
'Switch' campaign - all they need to do is ship with a 2-button mouse...
Kemp
[11/15] from: carl:cybercraft at: 27-Sep-2002 9:49
On 27-Sep-02, Porter Woodward wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rod Gaither" <[rgaither--triad--rr--com]>
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> easily under OS X. Lack of REBOL on OS X is one of the reasons
> holding me back from "switch"ing.
Core is already on OSX...
http://www.rebol.com/platforms.html
or am I missing something? (I know there's another non-Apple OSX (OS
X"?) from way back, so it's possible...)
Note though there's this in the REBOL FAQ regarding Core for Apple
OSX...
---8<---
From: http://www.rebol.com/faq.html
Note that the current release of Core does not run on the 10.2 version
of OSX. This is due to a change in the OSX dynamic libraries. The
work-around is to set an environment variable, DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES,
which declares libraries that are to be searched by the loader
(dyld). Add the following line to your login script:
setenv DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES /usr/lib/libtermcap.dylib
and, REBOL will run again. [Thanks Ron.]
---8<---
--
Carl Read
[12/15] from: rgaither:triad:rr at: 26-Sep-2002 19:13
Hi Carl,
Thanks very much for pointing this out!
I now have Core on OS X again.
It will help me wait patiently for View and IOS/Express... :-)
Rod.
> Note though there's this in the REBOL FAQ regarding Core for Apple
> OSX...
<<quoted lines omitted: 14>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
> subject, without the quotes.
Rod Gaither
[rgaither--triad--rr--com]
Oak Ridge, NC USA
[13/15] from: atruter:hih:au at: 27-Sep-2002 9:36
> Lack of REBOL on OS X is one of the reasons holding me back from
switch
ing.
Ditto. I've also had a few sales prospects (mainly from Academia) say to
me, "If your product runs on OS/X we'll buy it as there is no alternative
at present."
It may be a small market (relative to Windoze), but good products (both
REBOL and s/w made from it) can really shine in a market where there are
not that many choices (at the moment). "First mover" opportunities abound .
. .
Regards,
Ashley
[14/15] from: lgiddings:optushome:au at: 27-Sep-2002 10:08
Thankyou all for your thoughts so far re Rebol on Mac OS X
it was gratifying to read such a broad and enthusiastic response.
Although it appears to me that Rebol for OS X is definitely coming from
RT [some time],
I believe that our voices in unison can only help maintain the urgency
and our spot in what has to be a very long development list.
[If I only had the money.....]
Rods comment...
> Some work was also done on View on OS X (betas I think) - enough for
RT to
> say they had some issues, including performance, that needed to be
addressed
> before it was an acceptable port.
was interesting, I personally would be more than happy to run a
slooooow flaky /View beta
rather than the nothing available at the moment.
[Anecdotal evidence from this list suggests that Rebol Beta's are often
better
than some other peoples released code!]
Just a thought, but....
Maybe RT could make /View beta for Mac OS X available on a personal
request basis?
[As in registering to be come a beta tester?]
Finally:
Joel thanks for some interesting links :)
> http://www.byte.com/documents/s=7620/byt1032475416823/0923_bar.html
>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/26/0058238&mode=thread&tid=107
> http://www.apple.com/uk/hotnews/articles/simoncozens/
>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/22/1922205&mode=thread&tid=106
and *Special* thanks to Carl :)
for the one liner, that gets my rebol /Core back happening, on OS X 10.2
[15/15] from: pa:russo:perd at: 27-Sep-2002 12:21
Another vote for a quick OSX porting... hoping it helps to climb up RT's
priority list.
OSX is a dream that comes true for an iDeveloper :-), but I sorely miss
REBOL and IOS.
I'd be happy with a simple XDarwin recompilation just to begin, waiting
for the real thing.
[lgiddings--optushome--com--au] ha scritto:
>Thankyou all for your thoughts so far re Rebol on Mac OS X
>it was gratifying to read such a broad and enthusiastic response.
<<quoted lines omitted: 36>>
>[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
>subject, without the quotes.
--
Paolo Russo
Amministratore Unico
PERD s.r.l.
Via Sannio, 59
00183 Roma
http://www.perd.com
cell. 380.7017.641
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