Choosing the right marketing/sales model ... need an advice

Hello, this is the first email (there will be other one, I just wanted topics to be separated) to the list today. As you may remember, some half year ago I talked about my upcoming company. So together with my brother and two other friends we set-up Xidys Systems (X-Interned Dynamic Systems) company, which is supposed to do some astronomicla electronics (initially) - high quality one of course! One of our top products is CCD camera, which is nearly ready and client app should be written in Rebol of course. You can look at prototype of our upcoming web-site at http://www.xidys.com/prototype.gif - hope you'll like it, as we do :-) But enough - that's not why I am writing this email :-) As you can see, we are supposed to do also some kiosk and other embedded systems. We already installed first kiosk system in our town and I have to say it is a real success. Ppl like it, companies like it, we like it .... Some two year ago, together with my friend Alena, we started to talk about entire, complex, cool regional info system. Looking more and more into IOS, I found out, that IOS based system would blown off everything available here in our region. So we decided to start in small. Jablunkov, the town I live in, is part of organisation gathering 15 small towns and villages around. Alena works in Jablunkov's info centre. She decided to write a project for our dream-system to become a reality. The project will be funded 80% from EU Phare (IIRC) money. We will try to win the contract (and I hope we will win) with Xidys. What are we supposed to deliver? So last week we finally received documentation, and now we have to make an offer. Good one to win the contract of course. I hope not to your surprise, we want regional info system to be based upon REBOL IOS. Some of clients (Links) will be our kiosk systems, which will sync the stuff to their local storage. So we will make IOS collaborative and publishing system - well, it already is, we just need to program some additional reblets, customize it (we need UI-less client for kiosks to sync), and will try to make it multilingual (at least scripts, as we will have no access to desktop sources IIRC). But I have much biiger picture in my mind - commercial system, kiosk advertisement periods of times for sale for e.g., ticket reservation system for various occassions.There is good chance other other villages will join, as initially project funds only 5 kiosks. So the system can grow. As I already mentioned, it is supposed to be also collaborative system. Nowadays, there is system called Inforeg (http://www.inforeg.cz) - various local (=czech, slovak, polish - as we live 5 - 7 km from border with above countries) city-hall offices should post cultural news events and it should appear on the web. But the system is pretty dead. Some year ago we were supposed to take over its development, but I refused, because of bad deal offered (they could take it over from us without giving a single reason why - stupid). I can kill the system just by single installation of IOS! What is more, we will be able to sync the info to the kiosks. So, as you can see, there is some oportunity for us, to sell additional IOS seats and expand our system. As you can see, I have big plans :-) But, as always, there are some problems. I originally tried to convince Alena to found a joint company who would own such a system and would be able to license it, sell commercial advertisement, aern some fees from booking system, or simply take entry payments for companies to have access to the system. She is paid right now by city-hall, and to be honest, I have no confidence in some of ppl there. Martin did web for Jablunkov and the website was awarded - amongst the 20 best city sites in CZ, but I could see one clerk from city-hall to take prise, honor, giving the intervieews. He just told "thanks to all, who helped me", why in fact he just signed Martin's invoices. Martin just laughed but I think that that person just stole his IP that way. That is why I am scared of another possible city-hall moron claiming the system is theirs in the future and I want to protect myself somehow, trying to think what way should I deliver the system to them. I was not successfull in convincing Alena to go for a company and I can understand she would be put into a big risk that way ..... But they already stole my name - Silesion (the local area is called Silesia) - I was a bit shocked, when I saw project docs - "delivery of Silesion", uh. That's why I am writing this long email, to explain you exactly the situation, for you to give me possible advice - how would you do it? You know - if system will be successfull, it could be provided for sale to other regions of CZ and it would also mean other sales fo RT, other scripts to be written and paind for for some of rebolers, etc etc. - you surely understand the oportunity. But the last think I would need is someone claiming it is their system .... The project doc does not specify, how exactly should the system behave - it just says about interconnection of kiosks to the system, web portal output, communication. So let's say I will create that advertisement system - am I only left to sell them such system as additional module, or is it normal for such company as ours to ask e.g. for some percentage of advertisement income? Or just - they will charge 15USD annually per commercial company to be displayed (searchable) on the kiosks, webportal - is that normal to ask for the percentage or are we left to sw only sale? (In that case we would have to ask for much more money ) Maybe the best scenario would be to claim - we are authors of the system, we run it on our server, and all you do is - you pay us just to be let to join-in. The problem is - EU rules are very dificult to deal with - they protect themselves - e.g. it states, that if the winner tries to apply some additional conditions, the deal will be discontinued, so I have to be carefull about it all ... Thanks for any kind of strategy/marketing advice .... Cheers, -pekr-

Hi Petr, Sounds exciting! I know you've been working on things like this for a long time, so I'm glad to see it starting to really move. The legal and business issues are tough; hopefully someone will have some good ideas for you. Whatever advice you get here, you should find a good lawyer/solicitor on your end when drafting contracts and such. I would guess that it's unusual to ask for a percentage of the revenue from advertisers. My approach would be to provide the basic system, make sure you retain rights to everything you want to sell elsewhere, and have an ongoing contract for maintenance, customization, administration, etc. This starts with customizing the kiosk and other interfaces they get with version 1. Provide a certain number of hours at no charge to get things running, and build that cost in so they don't see it as a separate charge right up front but, rather, as a free benefit. Another approach is to sell a "base system" and have add-on modules that can be purchased (e.g. email notifications, various portal interfaces or feeds - like RSS) Best of luck with it! -- Gregg

Hi Petr, Looks like you need to protect your IP (Intellectual Property) with Trademarks, copyrights and / or patents. Product names and logos can be protected quite cheaply (at least in jurisdictions I am familiar with) by trademarks. Suitable copyright and EULA notices can protect your software (draft your own or find a suitable template on the web to take to your friendly lawyer). Patents are expensive and may not be usefull for technologies that change rapidly (how much is the patent on sholder-holstered mobile-phones now worth?). Regards, Ashley

Petr, Maybe just ensure there is a photograph of you with your name and role in the development accessible under the help menu or "more info" link. The image will of course be encrypted and inlined. :) That way, anyone who looks at the system can see who really put it together. This way, there is a strong association between the software and you. Anton.

> -----Original Message----- > From: [rebol-bounce--rebol--com] [mailto:[rebol-bounce--rebol--com]] > Silesia) - I was a bit shocked, when I saw project docs - > "delivery of Silesion", uh. That's why I am writing this long email,

> explain you exactly the situation, for you to give me possible advice

> would you do it? > ... > But the last > think I would need is someone claiming it is their system ....

On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:35:31 +0200 Petr Krenzelok <[petr--krenzelok--trz--cz]> wrote:

>you surely understand the oportunity. But the last think >I would need is someone claiming it is their system ....

Robert M. Muench wrote:

>for constraints you need to be successful. Why not let them state that >it's their system? Setup yourself as the OEM company that has the >contracts over and over again. Robert > Hi, good business is always very simple. So be careful of complex setup