quality rebol based editor (Was: Re: Style R flavour checker ;-))

[1/12] from: cyphre::seznam::cz at: 9-Jan-2002 19:08

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Cunliffe" <[jason--cunliffe--verizon--net]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:35 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Style R flavour checker ;-) ...

> Is REBOL fast enough to this & compete with exiting editors? > How big a project is this? > Request for Features? > .. >

Hi Jason and all, Unfortunately from my experience, Rebol is not fast enough for "realtime parsing" even 10Kb script on 600Mhz machine. Some time ago I tried to make text editor with syntax highliting and to tell the truth, I wasn't succesfull. I spent lots of hours, tried several techniques and rewrote the code many times from scratch, but in every case I hit the speed barier...so the result of all my efforts was just colored-text viewer. For a good text colored editor we probably need low-level support for colorizing the text directly built in 'face. But the problem is not only in color, also parsing the text for additional features such folding , syntax correction, tap completition and lots of other cool features I'm used from other editors is very time consuming tasks for rebol's parser.(especially when you are working with more than 3Kb text file) All this is just my personal opinion from my Rebol programming exeprience in this field. Maybe someone else has better results or knowledge so don't blame me for that ;-) Anyway, I'd like to know your thoughts... regards, Cyphre

[2/12] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 9-Jan-2002 13:45

> Unfortunately from my experience, Rebol is not fast enough for "realtime > parsing" even 10Kb script on 600Mhz machine.

That's a shame... so what to do? Python I know is able to quickly bootstrap interesting project developments in two ways and corss-breeding them: A. Design/Python-DOWN First design+code in python, then optimize selectively crucial sections in C to get to reach acceptable perfromance. Often these optimizations are small but very well aimed. B. Source/Library-UP Find an existing library, usually open-source, and write Python API for it, in the process learning hands-on about it the design. Later perhaps develop Python native version. For example, building a cool integrated editor using Scintilla http://www.scintilla.org/ How does REBOL work in regard to using such libraries? ./Jason

[3/12] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 9-Jan-2002 22:32

Jason Cunliffe wrote:

>>Unfortunately from my experience, Rebol is not fast enough for "realtime >>parsing" even 10Kb script on 600Mhz machine.

<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>

>http://www.scintilla.org/ >How does REBOL work in regard to using such libraries?

Does Python support callback functions? As Rebol library component doesn't and few folks here expressed difficulty of bringing in Rebol wrappers to libraries requiring callback functions ... -pekr-

[4/12] from: ryanc::iesco-dms::com at: 9-Jan-2002 18:48

Re: quality rebol based editor

Hardly a "quality editor", in fact still has a few bugs, but it does do a handy on the fly help lookup. Dont look at the code because I threw it together in a hurry. http://www.sonic.net/~gaia/projects/reb-editor.r --Ryan

[5/12] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 10-Jan-2002 12:45

Re: quality rebol based editor (Was: Re: Style R flavour checker ;-))

Hi Cyphre, << But the problem is not only in color, also parsing the text for additional features such folding , syntax correction, tap completition and lots of other cool features I'm used from other editors is very time consuming tasks for rebol's parser.(especially when you are working with more than 3Kb text file) >> I haven't tried it on scripts of any size, but a while back I got the basics of "REBOLsense" working. I.e. when you type a /, it checks to see if the preceding word is an object and, if so, pops up a list filled with the words for that object (works on nested objects as well). If you type a space, it checks to see if the previous word is a function and, if so, it displays the interface definition for the function. --Gregg

[6/12] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 10-Jan-2002 13:26

Hey Gregg, Check out my post early last night, Re: [REBOL] Re: quality rebol based editor. Its kind of a hack job, but cool nonetheless. Maybe we can steal some ideas from each other. I am interested to see how you did that Gregg. BTW, late last night I think I figured some tricks on how to do a really fast syntax highlight, though it requires some mean programming. There are a great number of cheats, but I see the biggest speed gain by only handling color within the visible area. Who cares about what you cant see? I would expect that you could remap the color of a whole 80x50 character screen in under 100ms on a 200mhz box. Another cheat that helps alot is to use an incremental remapping process, running in short durations. Color remapping would have a visible propagation with this technique, but you would not notice any UI delays. --Ryan Gregg Irwin wrote:

> Hi Cyphre, > << But the problem is not only in color, also parsing the text for

<<quoted lines omitted: 14>>

> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.

-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 The contradiction so puzzling to the ordinary way of thinking comes from the fact that we have to use language to communicate our inner experience which in its very nature transcends lingistics. -D.T. Suzuki

[7/12] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 10-Jan-2002 10:25

> Does Python support callback functions? As Rebol library component > doesn't and few folks here expressed difficulty of bringing in Rebol > wrappers to libraries requiring callback functions ...

That sounds like it could be long term obstacle for REBOL's growth unless RT adds support. fyi: An overview by Guid Van Rossum [1998] Glue It All Together With Python http://www.python.org/doc/essays/omg-darpa-mcc-position.html A review article frmo last summer by Stephen Figgins Combining Python and C++ http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2001/07/19/pythonnews.html ./Jason

[8/12] from: holger:rebol at: 10-Jan-2002 16:16

On Thu, Jan 10, 2002 at 10:25:58AM -0500, Jason Cunliffe wrote:

> > Does Python support callback functions? As Rebol library component > > doesn't and few folks here expressed difficulty of bringing in Rebol > > wrappers to libraries requiring callback functions ... > > That sounds like it could be long term obstacle for REBOL's growth unless RT > adds support.

Our library component does support callbacks, but that feature is not in the latest releases. It will be enabled in the next version. -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com]

[9/12] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 10-Jan-2002 19:53

Hi Ryan, << Maybe we can steal some ideas from each other. I am interested to see how you did that Gregg. >> I'm sure I'd be getting the better end of that bargain. :) I'll send you my little test project so you can see what I've done. Caveat Emptor. :) <<..I see the biggest speed gain by only handling color within the visible area. Who cares about what you cant see? ...>> Right. The VB editor, as an example, doesn't colorize the line you are currently editing. It colorizes, and reformats, it when you leave the line. I'm highly confident that they aren't keeping a rendered version of all the data lines you can't see. For large files that would be unmanagable. Illusion is the key. Perception is reality. --Gregg

[10/12] from: brett:codeconscious at: 11-Jan-2002 17:31

> Our library component does support callbacks, but that feature is not > in the latest releases. It will be enabled in the next version.

Good news! Brett.

[11/12] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 11-Jan-2002 20:13

Hi Gregg, Ryan and others, Have a look at http://www.rebol.cz/~cyphre/rebed.r this one of my trials to write editor with syntax hiliting. Nowadays I haven't enough time(and patience ;-) ) to continue with this project(is it worth to spend a time with it???). The code is ugly and has lots of problems but maybe someone of you could find in it some inspiration or even fix,enhance,speed it up ;) regards, Cyphre ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Irwin" <[greggirwin--mindspring--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 3:53 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: quality rebol based editor (Was: Re: Style R flavour checker ;-))

[12/12] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 11-Jan-2002 12:45

Very cool Cyphre!

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