Altme: how to find groups

Hello Rebols: Can anyone tell me how to find a list of Altme groups. In particular, those related to rebol. Pointers to documenation would be appreciated also. Thanks -- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com http://www.johnsons-web.com

Hi Tim, On Monday, June 16, 2003, 5:55:18 PM, you wrote: TJ> Can anyone tell me how to find a list of Altme TJ> groups. In particular, those related to rebol. There is no such list AFAIK. On the REBOL world, there's a checklist were some users have put their worlds. TJ> Pointers to documenation would be appreciated also. I think all the docs are on http://www.safeworlds.com/ . But you can just log in the REBOL world and ask there, it's very likely someone will answer you. :) Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

* Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> [030617 08:40]:

> Hi Tim, > On Monday, June 16, 2003, 5:55:18 PM, you wrote: > can just log in the REBOL world and ask there, it's very likely > someone will answer you. :)

Hello Tim, TJ> Hello Gabriele: How do I log in to the REBOL world without TJ> a user name and password. TJ> How do I get it? It's not just you that doesn't get it, Tim. I've run it. Set up my own world for a play. Nice toy. I can't list or join any other worlds though. So far it looks like a nifty toy but I'm really just not getting why on earth it's a good idea to have moved the mailing list discussion onto this - especially when there's no actual procedure to 'join' and participate. Looks like a nice demonstration of Rebol but pretty much useless to actually serve as an interactive forum in my view. Unless there's loads of hidden complexity that I'm just not seeing, not to mention an explanation on REBOL.com of how you get on this thing and how you get a user/pass for the Rebol world... On a more general note; regarding my earlier query about SMTP authorization with Rebol, a few were good enough to point out the esmtp scheme and so on. I've just got around to trying it out and, well, it basically doesn't work. Cryptic error messages about some problem in the AUTHing. It's talking to a Sendmail server as far as I know. If it was just normal Rebol code I'm sure I could hack it but it's written as a scheme and I really just don't 'get' how it works. Isn't SMTP with auth really quite a useful thing these days? Has no one else tackled this? I really don't want to have to write an SMTP sending function just to do this. Regards, Mat Bettinson - +44-(0)20-83401514.

Hi Tim, the initial idea behind safeworlds has been that these are all "private" worlds, where you can only join on request. That's why there are no lists of worlds. Now it is an open secret that there is something like a rebol world. To join, open the world rebol (that's the easy part) and login as "guest" with password "guest" find the list called "accounts" and ask for a personal account. The list is monitored by the world masters, and if they find your entry, you'll get your personal account information mailed to your email account. Normally this works within about half a day. I hope that helped. Ingo Tim Johnson wrote:

> * Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> [030617 08:40]: >>Hi Tim, > Regards > tim

* Ingo Hohmann <[ingo--2b1--de]> [030617 12:56]:

> Hi Tim, > the initial idea behind safeworlds has been that these are all "private" > they find your entry, you'll get your personal account information > mailed to your email account. Normally this works within about half a day.

> I hope that helped.

Hi Tim, Tim Johnson wrote: [...]

> > I hope so to :-) > > But I still like mailing lists.

I prefer the mailing list too. Even though the response time is slower, the responses are of higher quality, because (hopefully) more thought has gone into their composition. But there is substantial activity going on in the rebol world that you shouldn't miss if you can run it. And, there is great benefit in fast responses sometimes. Anton.

Hi Mat, MB> I can't list or join any other worlds though. That's the idea. Worlds are safe; only those you invite can get in. It's not meant to be an ML replacement. It's a different kind of tool. As Reichart has said, people may set up a world for a single conversation and then throw it away. You may also set up a world to last a long time. You might even use it as a lightweight information manager that lets you get at data from anywhere. MB> So far it looks like a nifty toy but I'm really just not getting MB> why on earth it's a good idea to have moved the mailing list MB> discussion onto this RT didn't move the mailing list onto AltME; it's just this self-organizing system reorganizing itself. It came; we saw; a number of us now do both. Carl only wanted to let people know that it's quieter here now because there is another channel that is active, and where lots of ML members spend some of their time now. MB> - especially when there's no actual procedure to 'join' and participate. It's not an official channel, but you are going through the informal procedure now. :) MB> Looks like a nice demonstration of Rebol but pretty much useless to MB> actually serve as an interactive forum in my view. Unless there's MB> loads of hidden complexity that I'm just not seeing,... I don't know why you'd want more complexity, but I find it far from useless. You can often get an answer in short order, if not always real time. It's a *wonderful* interactive forum IMO. On the ML, you don't have named groups, or private messages, or checklists, or user information, or alerts, or single click copying of messages, or real-time response. Just my 2 cents. MB> Isn't SMTP with auth really quite a useful thing these days? Has no MB> one else tackled this? I really don't want to have to write an SMTP MB> sending function just to do this. If someone needs it, someone will write it. I needed it for one account a while back, and Scott Jones's version worked great for me. I haven't heard of any other implementations, but maybe someone will chime in with one. -- Gregg

Hello Matt

> On a more general note; regarding my earlier query about SMTP > authorization with Rebol, a few were good enough to point out the > know. If it was just normal Rebol code I'm sure I could hack it but > it's written as a scheme and I really just don't 'get' how it works.

Hi Mat, On Tuesday, June 17, 2003, 9:10:38 PM, you wrote: MB> nifty toy but I'm really just not getting why on earth it's a good MB> idea to have moved the mailing list discussion onto this - especially We have *NOT* moved the mailing list discussion into it. MB> when there's no actual procedure to 'join' and participate. There is, and has been stated here multiple times, you just need to enter the world "rebol" using "guest" as user name and "guest" as password. The you go into the Accounts group and request for an account stating your name and you email address. Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

Sorry, reading the mail again, I see that you use Sendmail. AR

> Hello Matt > > > the Microsoft mail server. > AR

I am not swayed to AltMe, but let me explain. I think AltMe wins for private messaging, or if you want interactivity and presence awareness. But standard email client supports richer features and infrastructure. IMO REBOL community should not migrate to closed door environment such as IOS or Altme. A healthy community is visible and very active. REBOL community is already eclectic bunch :^) Count the tributaries of Amiga, Scheme, FORTH, maybe Postscript -- it's maybe enough to fill a good-sized beer hall ;^) AltMe is good for REBOL too. Its success as a commercial app can point the way for others. But REBOLs lifeblood is the group of talented and devoted users that share knowledge in an open forum. ~Daril

IMHO: Daril's comments are right on the mark - both the critical and the positive. I found myself a bit vexed that Carl posted a message to this ML about 'why this list has been so quiet' (sic), but did not give clear instructions as to how to use Altme. At least I didn't see them, and had to post several queries to this list to resolve that matter. I gather from other postings that others may have felt the same way. I hope both this ML and altme will flourish. However, I have 'bragged up' rebol to anyone who will listen and have urged other programmers, including my business partner to use it, and I think many of those would prefer the ML approach. regards tim * Daril Ng <[ishtahara--yahoo--com]> [030618 08:28]:

> I am not swayed to AltMe, but let me explain. > I think AltMe wins for private messaging, or if you > [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.

I prefer ML simply because all my stuff gets dumped in one place and I just use a simple filter which dumps each ML I participate in within a separate folder... KISS I don't have to keep several windows open and I don't have to log on each time... I'll never forget to check on a discussion, my mail is always open... and its a common doorway to all my communication needs, either personal, business, group discussion or for files sharing. just having two (or more) mail addresses is a pain... cause you always -eventually- forget to check one of your accounts out and murphy's law is that you missed something important ;-) my two cents, (in CDN$ ;) -max ----------- meteor Studios, T.D. ----------- Strong enough for a man, but made for a woman

Hi Tim,

> I found myself a bit vexed that Carl posted a > message to this ML about 'why this list has been > so quiet' (sic), but did not give clear instructions > as to how to use Altme.

> At least I didn't see them,

Hi Tim, TJ> I found myself a bit vexed that Carl posted a TJ> message to this ML about 'why this list has been TJ> so quiet' (sic), but did not give clear instructions TJ> as to how to use Altme. Again, I think he was just letting people know that the REBOL community is still vibrant, even though it's quiet here. I don't think he, in any way, was trying to tell people to go there, hence the lack of instructions on how to do so in his message. I think RT still sees this ML as its main community gathering point. That said, and I agree that we need open, public, channels, I can communicate much more effectively using AltME and IOS. They are just different. I wouldn't want to give up my AltME worlds and IOS servers for MLs, but I'm still here as well. :) All of them are important to me. -- Gregg

--- Ladislav Mecir wrote:

> he did. > http://www.escribe.com/internet/rebol/m27839.html > > > At least I didn't see them, > > most probably you didn't try. > > -L

(Sorry if this is a dupe submission... the first submission had incorrect From address.) I see altme as the model for future email, at least. Back a few months ago when Carl screamed about spam and changed his handle to Carl.S, I guessed that he might be up to something, and it would make sense to me if altme was on his mind. My speculation on this may be far off, but still... this evolution is exciting. I see only a few 'solutions' to life without spam, and an invite-only list (ala white-list) is one of them. The big questions in my mind don't include whether altme is a replacement for mailing lists. These are my big questions: 1) Will it include a POP3 server. 2) How might it eventually set the standard for white-list email and become universal, including features considered standard in current email systems. 3) How will multiple altme installations (whether on LAN/WAN or dispersed independently across the internet) securely distribute or link to their white-lists and/or text archives. How open can each installation be, and remain secure. 4) How will it integrate with a non white-list contact system, eg for collecting new customer contact information from a website. Ie, for businesses, what's the best way to maintain an open email system for anonymous or new customers. (Maybe all it will require is the standard "Contact" or "Support" page at a website, and the only question is how a new user or customer will be invited to an altme group.) 5) Will it ever make sense to integrate a NEWS server into it. (This could be a good idea if only to attract users who haven't yet installed altme.) To emphasize my main point again, I see this as the basis for an email replacement system that will be the first, viable, universal spam killer. --Ken. At 08:52 AM 6/18/03 -0700, you wrote:

>I am not swayed to AltMe, but let me explain. >I think AltMe wins for private messaging, or if you >[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the >subject, without the quotes.