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Incomplete Documentation

 [1/8] from: coussement:c:js:mil:be at: 5-Sep-2001 9:04


How-to's are a good and practical way to dispense knowledge IMO. But I recall Carl stating the rate those should be published: <quote from message to the lst on 30-Apr-2001> First how-to is about custom buttons. More how-to articles every few days... as time permits. </quote> Well, at this time there should be some 40 How-to's published, and not 5 ! The point is, I begin to scare for RT: they even didn't reply to the complain of the lst concerning the doc. As someone pointed, Betamax didn't won the fight against the lesser VHS :-[ Is this the way RT is going to ??? Most of the people on the list would only lose a great language. Because I decided to use REBOL for a core project for the Belgian Armed Forces, I would lose a great language, my credibility, and should be forced to make the game of those who told me : REBOL - beurk! - I don't know this, just use Visual Basic, that's thinking professional ! Carl please, give us a sign you at RT will stay alive, tell us you will support this enthusiastic community and provide good documentation ! RT, we need YOU !!! ==christophe

 [2/8] from: holger:rebol at: 5-Sep-2001 7:41


On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 09:04:10AM +0200, CRS - Psy Sel/SPO, COUSSEMENT, Christophe, CPN wrote:
> The point is, I begin to scare for RT: they even didn't reply to the > complain of the lst concerning the doc.
Probably because this topic and a few others like it reappear on the list every few months with surprising regularity. We might want to set up a response bot for it :). Here goes: we are aware that a LOT of work still remains to be done. This includes better docs, more ports, better platform-specific support, additional features, ..., ..., ... However, we are a small team and have to prioritize carefully. That means sometimes important things get pushed back because more important things take priority. Hopefully, in the future, as RT and the community grow, we will be able to address many of those issues. -- Holger Kruse [holger--rebol--com]

 [3/8] from: mario:cassani:icl at: 5-Sep-2001 16:06


Hi Holger,
> However, we are a small team and have to prioritize > carefully. That means
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> community grow, we > will be able to address many of those issues.
How do you plan to expand the community? I am my company stupid for I try to open other's people eyes on the many wonders of Rebol. Yesterday, during the review I was told being unefficient and not respecting the company standards only because once I suggested to use Rebol for ftp transfers rather than VB. They also told me that I must learn VB in the future while I am still using C. VB an .Net to port the POS/retail applications to the Internet. I can't and don't want to believe that the Internet will be a M$ VB developed environment. I am seriusly scared about the future of RT, as told before, while I see a lot of things that can be easily made with Rebol I often hear: "It's not the standard", "RebWhat? Never heard before" and so on. In the meanwhile VB and .Net are doing the same things with the need of more resources and big lack of performances. Rebol must be known *BEFORE* the market is collapsed with "new" "standards" such as Flash, C# substituting Java and so on.... It looks like everything is going like my old beloved Commodore Amiga. Zaijian Mario

 [4/8] from: tim:johnsons-web at: 5-Sep-2001 8:42


Hey Guys: On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 04:06:27PM +0100, Cassani Mario wrote:
> Hi Holger, > > However, we are a small team and have to prioritize
<<quoted lines omitted: 17>>
> while I see a lot of things that can be easily made with Rebol > I often hear: "It's not the standard", "RebWhat? Never heard
Acceptance of rebol by other IT people varies. I recently formed a small company with a perl programmer. I can see projects coming where the two languages will complement each other AND work together. The reasonable best case scenario as to the acceptance of rebol is that oftentime customers don't care what language the product is written in. They want results! I shared the concerns voiced here when I started learning rebol over a year ago. I still have some of those concerns, but the fact is : rebol IS still here. And my best guess is that they will continue to be around forever. The worst case scenario is RT goes out of business, and a heroic culture evolves around the existing binaries (and I speak for /core only), which are already awesome tools. After all, xtreegold was a major tool for me for years after symantec abandoned it. Even if my clients wanted nothing but "C", I would be prototyping in rebol and using rebol as a template for C abstract data types. I remember when COBOL and Fortran programmers were finding so many reasons that the "C" language wasn't going to be around long....
> before" and so on. In the meanwhile VB and .Net are doing the > same things with the need of more resources and big lack of
<<quoted lines omitted: 9>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the > subject, without the quotes.
-- Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]> http://www.johnsons-web.com

 [5/8] from: greggirwin:starband at: 5-Sep-2001 12:16


To add just a little note from a newbie... Even if REBOL doesn't take over the world, as long as it keeps running I can use it to write tools that make my job easier. That said, when VB was released, it's docs left much to be desired, there were many unkowns, and performace could have been better BUT it was a revolutionary tool if you wanted to write Windows apps. Desipte the BASIC stigma attached to it, it has become enormously successful. Hmmm, maybe .NET is like the Titanic. Everyone says it's the future but there are an awful lot of rivets in there.<g> --Gregg

 [6/8] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 5-Sep-2001 20:23


So, OK, If noone from RT will encourage you, I will try to. I used to react the same way as you do. And I have to admit, that you are right in certain areas - bug database, feedback (tech support), bug in docs, reported long time ago, etc. etc. And I will not change my mind, because I think that I have good arguments to bring in some critique. On the other hand, I worked 4 or more years for Amiga Review - so I like giving questions and have everything answered. So, being present in Express conference, I know some thigs, which are not secret. I will not reveal any of them, but you should know, that RT is not sleeping. They are working on major updte of their products. As you can see from their website, Express 1.0 is coming soon, whatever "soon" means :-) With new Express release, hopefully Core and View get some updates too, as Express is product build upon Rebol after all. I expressed to RT marketing manager, that if Carl or Holger would find 10 mins and post some one or bi-monthly update, what is being worked on, it would be very nice. Yes - we want to become community. But we need Executive update , like Be Inc. and Amiga Inc. provide(d) to their communities. I can understand your position and frustration. I work as IT manager for sales company - Moravia Steel, mother company of Trinec Iron and Steel works. We are moving to SAP R3, we have more than 2000 clients of Lotus Notes. I was leading team of 3ppl, which implemented the most open, coolest system for sales department. It will be scrapped in favor of one part of SAP modules. The worst thing is - noone cares about underlying sales precesses. Software implementation became nasty business, and it hurts my heart. Who will suffer - end user. So, do you think I have easy position using Rebol for few tasks inside our company? I don't. But I fight. We can hear it once and once again - why Rebol, if there is php, perl, python. So ask your friends - why #C, if there is Java? The truth is, however, that we can't succeed if RT fails. So, for now, let RT work on their stuff. It is coming ... hopefully - soon enough .. Hey Carl, what about 7.9.? I am 29 ;-) Cheers, -pekr-

 [7/8] from: coussement:c:js:mil:be at: 6-Sep-2001 9:27


> So, for > now, let RT work on their stuff. It is coming ... hopefully - soon enough > ..
[ Hope makes life possible ;-) Thanks for the good words ! ==christophe ]

 [8/8] from: mario:cassani:icl at: 6-Sep-2001 9:54


I wish to thank (alphabetically) Gregg, Petr and Tim for their moral support. Xie xie nimen Mario Cassani ============================================================ Mario Cassani PGP Key fingerprint: 9929 74CF 62E9 A7A4 60D6 05DC 8034 F354 ------------------------------------------------------------ You are right: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you find that life spits on you calm down and pretend it's raining ============================================================ PS I hope that "moral" is the right word, i meant "supporto morale" if you understand Italian.

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