REBOL momentum builds
[1/30] from: carl::rebol::com at: 15-May-2002 10:57
Dear REBOL List:
I just wanted to drop by the list and say hi. I wish I had
more time to participate in the discussions here. So many
good ideas and questions! I would like to comment on every
message...
===Webby
As you know, REBOL was recently nominated for a Webby.
This is a huge honor for us, being picked as one of the top
five technical achievements along with Google, Sony, and two
others.
Although the Webby itself is decided by a closed group of
people, the People's Voice award is picked by the public.
This is our opportunity to make REBOL stand out. I realize
that it's not that easy to vote, but please do! Google now
has the lead, but REBOL is second. Let's make REBOL first.
http://www.webbyawards.com/peoplesvoice/index.html
Be sure to tell your friends and coworkers to vote too.
Also, send the REBOL Webby press release to your local
newspapers. Now that is REBOL networking.
===Bio Update
For those of you in the CZ Republic, I've added a more
detailed history/bio on myself and put a few photos along
with it (including nice Amiga team photo). You can find
it at:
http://www.rebol.com/bio-carl.html
===New REBOL Licensing
I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
and REBOL/View. What do you think? Here's what I'm thinking:
Core and View would be free for use and redistribution for
commercial and noncommercial use; however, if more than five
copies are in use at a single company, then purchasing would
be required. Exception would be the use of REBOL for any
educational purposes.
This mean you can use REBOL for creating and selling your
programs, for in-house servers, for small company clients,
and for use in consulting solutions.
What we're really trying to do is avoid XYZ Company using it
for free with their 100,000 employees. They can afford to pay
for it, and we need them to do so. (Unlike Linus, etc., we don't
have any other jobs but REBOL!)
===Release of new Core and View
It's good to see users reporting that the new Core and View fix
a number of bugs and crashes. We've been using this Core for
so many months now, we've forgotten about those.
Also, be sure to tell us about any additional types of crashes,
and we'll get them fixed. Please use the new feedback form at:
http://www.rebol.com/feedback.html
If you post them to the REBOL-list, chances are we'll never see
them. Sorry.
===Just Remember on IOS...
I just wanted to point out that, just as VID is just a subsystem
running on View (and you can write your own VID or similar GUI
system), the IOS Desktop is just an application that runs on IOS.
IOS is capable of a lot more than just that provided by the Desktop.
In fact it is possible to create custom desktop apps that change
it completely. The desktop is written 100% in REBOL and is about
40K of code.
We've been thinking of alternate types of desktops that are more
organizational workflow specific. We've got some killer-app ideas
too!
That's it for now! Got to run. Remember to Vote for REBOL!
-Carl
Carl Sassenrath
REBOL Founder
[2/30] from: larry:ecotope at: 15-May-2002 14:07
Hi Carl,
I like your suggestions for a new licensing model. For a small user like
myself who writes a few scripts they would like to distribute with an
executable to a rather small audience, this is a very important change. I
hope it becomes a reality.
Cheers
-Larry
[3/30] from: brett:codeconscious at: 16-May-2002 9:58
Hi Carl,
> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
> and REBOL/View. What do you think? Here's what I'm thinking:
I think the change would be very welcome and would encourage exploration
REBOL based technologies. A great thing!
Brett.
[4/30] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 16-May-2002 12:38
> ===New REBOL Licensing
> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> be required. Exception would be the use of REBOL for any
> educational purposes.
For IOS to be successful, RT needs a large pool of
developers. To attract developers for IOS, you need to free
up Command and Pro for developers, and try licensing for
commercial use. Perhaps make it a condition of use by
developers that they enforce this before distributing their
scripts.
My 2 cents. ( currently worth .9 UScents )
--
Graham Chiu
[5/30] from: tim:johnsons-web at: 15-May-2002 18:39
Re: REBOL momentum builds/Question/Comment
Hello Carl and All:
> Core and View would be free for use and redistribution for
> commercial and noncommercial use; however, if more than five
> copies are in use at a single company, then purchasing would
> be required. Exception would be the use of REBOL for any
> educational purposes.
Carl, I think that is a very good decision!
> ===Release of new Core and View
Download? Where?
> It's good to see users reporting that the new Core and View fix
> a number of bugs and crashes. We've been using this Core for
> so many months now, we've forgotten about those.
I've been using Core 2.5.0.4.2 for some time now..
I'm confused. I just downloaded the /Core distro for linux.
It shows the exact size, date, as my current version.
I didn't untar it, but it looks like the same version too..
Did I miss something? (But Core 2.5.0.4.2 has always been
rock-solid stable on my box and domain anyways) :-)
-tim-
> Also, be sure to tell us about any additional types of crashes,
> and we'll get them fixed. Please use the new feedback form at:
<<quoted lines omitted: 20>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
> subject, without the quotes.
--
Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]>
http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
http://www.johnsons-web.com
[6/30] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 16-May-2002 7:34
Re: REBOL momentum builds
Carl Sassenrath wrote:
>Dear REBOL List:
>
>I just wanted to drop by the list and say hi. I wish I had
>more time to participate in the discussions here. So many
>good ideas and questions! I would like to comment on every
>message...
>
That's great :-)
>===Webby
>As you know, REBOL was recently nominated for a Webby.
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
>Also, send the REBOL Webby press release to your local
>newspapers. Now that is REBOL networking.
already voted and also pushed my brain to come up with some comments,
after your marketing guru Scot talked me to write something :-)
>===Bio Update
>
>For those of you in the CZ Republic, I've added a more
>detailed history/bio on myself and put a few photos along
>with it (including nice Amiga team photo). You can find
>it at:
>
>http://www.rebol.com/bio-carl.html
>
Ah, that is simply cool. Why Czech Republic specific? :-) I hope others
can read it too, as the page is simply cool and reminds me there is not
only product, but also some community around it. What about Guru
meditation executive update on the website? :-) Maybe it could be called
GurMan - what do we cook today? :-)
I also saw your employment oportunities? What about programmers
employment oportunities? You will need more programmers to get all that
nice enhancement requests to 3.0, don't you think? :-)
>===New REBOL Licensing
>I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
<<quoted lines omitted: 11>>
>for it, and we need them to do so. (Unlike Linus, etc., we don't
>have any other jobs but REBOL!)
Ah, sounds too good to be true! I have few other questions/suggestions here:
- is it possible to let computer magazine publish Rebol/View on their CD
for ppl to try? Do they need any kind of special licence/agreement or
are they free to do so?
- what kind of Desktop will next View feature? IIRC it was said Link &
View are bocoming one - but Link uses synchronisation to IOS server
along with IOS Desktop. What will View users use? Current View desktop,
so there will be two desktops? Or?
- if this is the right time for Rebol to take off, I would go even
further - put library and shell components into Core! Let them fly!
Security, databases, etc. are still good for /Command. Simplify your
product line - discard /Pro, so there would be only Core with library
and shell and /Command profi line. Look - I think that equation is not
only:
X pieces of Rebol sold * Y money it costs = how to measure success ...
I am not sure you take in mind also psychologic factors. E.g. once you
establish Rebol in some community, such community will become dependant
upon it, will start to use it, suggest it to others, promote it - it is
spiral effect, it starts slowly, maybe does not bring some direct sales
intitially, but I think if done well, it can turn into advantage ... :-)
And you can bet Carl, that if some kind of voting would be here, it
would end-up in some 10:0 pekr vs RT :-) Am I right folks? (don't dare
to tell anything against my opinion here, or I will shoot you! - Cyphre,
what about some shoot'em up game? :-)
Note: library and shell could be secured the same way, as you do when
you touch outside of default sand-box - dialog box asking for permission
(Rebol's native 'delete command can cause enough damage, maybe even
more, than most of library functions :-)....
>===Just Remember on IOS...
>I just wanted to point out that, just as VID is just a subsystem
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
>too!
>That's it for now! Got to run. Remember to Vote for REBOL!
Well, I really enjoyed your email - made my day, that's for sure!
-pekr-
[7/30] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 16-May-2002 10:19
Hello Carl,
> ===Bio Update
>
> For those of you in the CZ Republic, I've added a more
> detailed history/bio on myself and put a few photos along
> with it (including nice Amiga team photo). You can find
> it at:
>
> http://www.rebol.com/bio-carl.html
Really nice reading ;-)
> ===New REBOL Licensing
> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
<<quoted lines omitted: 11>>
> for it, and we need them to do so. (Unlike Linus, etc., we don't
> have any other jobs but REBOL!)
This licensing model seems to be quite better than the current one! What
about View/Pro features? Would be great to free(only at the same conditions
you've written above) some (or even all?) of them...at least sound and
library access interface. I think this will help to spread Rebol into wide
area of applications and better compete with other free scripting
languages.What is your opinion on that?
regards,
Cyphre
[8/30] from: carl:cybercraft at: 16-May-2002 21:03
On 16-May-02, Carl Sassenrath wrote:
> ===New REBOL Licensing
> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
<<quoted lines omitted: 7>>
> programs, for in-house servers, for small company clients,
> and for use in consulting solutions.
That sounds very generous.
One thing you need to address is to get more web-hosts to actively
support REBOL. Searches of the Web for hosts that mention REBOL
support on their websites usually turns up no more than two or three.
Also, this site...
http://www.webhostingratings.com/advanced.html
seems to be the most popular place to search for hosting sites,
(according to Google when you search for "web hosting"), but there's
no way on their search page to search for hosts with REBOL support,
unlike ones with support for Perl and Python and so on. Perhaps you
could drop them a line and ask them to add a REBOL tick to their
submit form.
And good luck with the Webbies. (From an honest voter:)
--
Carl Read
[9/30] from: carl:cybercraft at: 16-May-2002 20:32
Re: REBOL momentum builds/Question/Comment
On 16-May-02, Tim Johnson wrote:
Hi Tim,
> I'm confused. I just downloaded the /Core distro for linux.
> It shows the exact size, date, as my current version.
> I didn't untar it, but it looks like the same version too..
> Did I miss something?
It would seem so - new betas of Core and View were released for
testing early in the month. See...
http://www.escribe.com/internet/rebol/m22133.html
http://www.escribe.com/internet/rebol/m22135.html
for info about them and where to download them. (If they're still
available.)
--
Carl Read
[10/30] from: riusa:email:it at: 16-May-2002 13:26
Re: REBOL momentum builds
Hi Carl,
I voted for Rebol!
--Alessandro--
> Dear REBOL List:
> I just wanted to drop by the list and say hi. I wish I had
<<quoted lines omitted: 64>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
> subject, without the quotes.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Alessandro Manotti
Presidente dell'Associazione "RIUSA"
Sito web: http://riusa.apritisesamo.net
email: [riusa--email--it]
mailing-list: [riusa-ml--yahoogroups--com]
Telefono: 347.63.43.231
--
Prendi GRATIS l'email universale che... risparmia: http://www.email.it/f
Sponsor:
Le maglie con il numero e il nome dei tuoi campioni, sono sul Milanstore
Clicca qui: http://adv2.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=313&d=16-5
[11/30] from: maarten:koopmans:surfnet:nl at: 16-May-2002 13:26
I second Petrs proposition to move at least the Library component in Core=2E
That really adds value for the (commercial) rebolopers.
--Maarten
[12/30] from: rishioswal:yah:oo at: 16-May-2002 10:13
I also think it is only to REBOL's benefit to free up
pro features in view.
rishi
[13/30] from: chris:langreiter at: 16-May-2002 15:05
> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
> and REBOL/View. What do you think? Here's what I'm thinking:
Sounds not only reasonable, but outright generous!
I think you're on the very right track.
Best regards,
-- Chris
[14/30] from: ingo:2b1 at: 16-May-2002 21:58
Cyphre wrote:
<...>
>>Core and View would be free for use and redistribution for
>>commercial and noncommercial use; however, if more than five
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>>programs, for in-house servers, for small company clients,
>>and for use in consulting solutions.
<...>
> This licensing model seems to be quite better than the current one!
I'd second that!
> What
> about View/Pro features? Would be great to free(only at the same conditions
> you've written above) some (or even all?) of them...at least sound and
> library access interface. I think this will help to spread Rebol into wide
> area of applications and better compete with other free scripting
> languages.What is your opinion on that?
Ahh, yes, those people who always try to get the whole hand, if you give
them your small finger. ;-D
Well, actually, I think there are many people out there who won't take
Rebol seriously, unless all versions have shell/library. I, myself,
think that encryption is very immportant nowadays. Can live without
sound, though.
BTW, are there any docs about the system port?
Kind regards,
Ingo
[15/30] from: rotenca:telvia:it at: 16-May-2002 14:14
Hi Graham
> For IOS to be successful, RT needs a large pool of
> developers. To attract developers for IOS, you need to free
> up Command and Pro for developers, and try licensing for
> commercial use.
I agree: to make Pro and Command free only for personal and non-commercial use
should give to the rebol community, for free, libraries and scripts to
interface the real world.
---
Ciao
Romano
[16/30] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 16-May-2002 14:41
Hi Carl,
On Wednesday, May 15, 2002, 7:57:00 PM, you wrote:
CS> I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
CS> and REBOL/View. What do you think? Here's what I'm thinking:
This looks like what we were discussing some time ago. :) It would
be great, since I'm still waiting for the company I'm working with
to purchase /Encap and even if they said they would in December
they still didn't...
Usually we develop sw for shops and very small companies etc, with
one user or two.
Regards,
Gabriele.
--
Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer
Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r
[17/30] from: jason:cunliffe:verizon at: 16-May-2002 15:31
Hi Carl
> I just wanted to drop by the list and say hi. I wish I had
> more time to participate in the discussions here. So many
> good ideas and questions! I would like to comment on every
> message...
It's nice to hear from you! I voted. [And posted a review]
> ===New REBOL Licensing
Thanks. Delighted to hear new consideration being given to licensing. Any
opening up like this is great news. I don't want to appear to be looking a
gift-horse in the mouth, BUT imo licensing is a very serious obstacle, as many
posts to this list testify.
If you really want to experience a wider rapid engagement of REBOL vision and
its products, then I argue that a much more drastic simplification of RT
products and licensing is required urgently..
OFFER JUST TWO PRODUCTS:
1. REBOL/CORE/COMMAND/VIEW aka REBOL/VIEW aka "REBOL"
2. REBOL/IOS x-Internet system
REBOL would include /Core, /View /ViewPro and /Command
Licensing [see below] would influence the time scope of access to some features,
upgrades and multi-seat use and costs.
REBOL/IOS
All the other good stuff built on that.
Turnkey business-oriented value and power.
DEFINE _FOUR_ TYPES OF LICENSES
DEMO Oriented to basic discovery of language.
Free trial.
Time limited Download and get on with it. Fun.
Include Shell access and CALL for .exe etc
But No ODBC or ENCAP
DEVELOPER Oriented to individual professional and application dev.
Unlimited time for all features, except ODBC + ENCAP, which have 30
day free trial.
Developers pay for ODBC and ENCAP permanent unlock after 30 days.
Rates to be discussed $500 maybe ?
EDUCATOR Like developer, but tailored for organization not an individual.
Could apply to registered non-profits also.
Assuming better docs become available, REBOL Educator course-ware and
[printed]documentation could be charged for.
This could also open up a developer market too writing modules ala EASY-VID.
Bundle REBOL-ready webserver and HTML infrastructure to make-docs etc. Make it
easy for educators to tryout out, survive their own bureaucracy gets kids and
students hands-on and keep going with at an affordable rate..
COMMERCIAL Businesses. Multiple-user and/or site rates.
All features enabled full time.
How to make sure RT is not being cheated?
A. Implement a low-level messaging within REBOL internals to track license and
keep you and the user updated other status. Make it easy for them upgrade
license this way.
What are you proposing in itself now has been, and is quite reasonable in terms
of real-life cost and value. But no technology exists in a vacuum. People will
drop $200 on the latest xyz but hesitate to spend $50 for a brilliant software
toolkit. Partly I fell this is a mix of greedy psychology compounded by
inexperience/ignorance.
SHELL + CALL : essential for servers
Today the alternatives are many and excellent. Perl, PHP and Python offer free
open easy access to a incredible growing set of modules, libraries, extensions,
APIs, and support communities, books etc. For any kind of server-side use, even
developer experimentation, the free REBOL has a major obstacle by not being able
to do shell and execution of other software. Nobody I have spoken with can make
head or tail of that lack.
ENCAP
The other one which drives people but is lack of stand alone executable. This is
not an issue on Unix/Linux of course thanks to chmod 755. But for Windows is a
serious problem for many. For casual users, educators, I think it is not a
problem. But for many developers and businesses it surely sounds a big alarm
bell preventing their office's adoption of REBOL beyond a fascinating language
and idea.
REBOL/IOS vs. REBOL
In the scheme above, my premise is that if more people could explore REBOL more
freely [that's REBOL/VIEWPRO/COMMAND:+/-ENCAP] they would be much more likely to
appreciate IOS. Businesses especially would value better your turnkey offer and
find it easier to engage it in a committed manner.
best wishes
./Jason
[18/30] from: tim::johnsons-web::com at: 16-May-2002 11:09
Re: REBOL momentum builds/Question/Comment
* Carl Read <[carl--cybercraft--co--nz]> [020516 05:42]:
> On 16-May-02, Tim Johnson wrote:
> Hi Tim,
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> It would seem so - new betas of Core and View were released for
> testing early in the month. See...
Thanks Carl. They are still there!
-tj-
> http://www.escribe.com/internet/rebol/m22133.html
> http://www.escribe.com/internet/rebol/m22135.html
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> [rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the
> subject, without the quotes.
--
Tim Johnson <[tim--johnsons-web--com]>
http://www.alaska-internet-solutions.com
http://www.johnsons-web.com
[19/30] from: bry:itnisk at: 16-May-2002 9:14
Re: REBOL momentum builds
>I think it's time to change the licensing for REBOL/Core
>and REBOL/View. What do you think? Here's what I'm thinking:
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
>be required. Exception would be the use of REBOL for any
>educational purposes.
Well I think you could do the same with Rebol Command, however I think
redistribution for commercial use should be payed for, probably
negotiable, this is just that I want to start using Rebol Command in a
large product my company is working on but I can't convince my boss to
put down the money on the Command up front. If I built stuff with it
that was really useful of course his opinion might be changeable.
[20/30] from: rebolek:seznam:cz at: 16-May-2002 12:53
Hi,
>Ah, that is simply cool. Why Czech Republic specific? :-) I hope others
>can read it too, as the page is simply cool and reminds me there is not
>only product, but also some community around it. What about Guru
>meditation executive update on the website? :-) Maybe it could be
called
>GurMan - what do we cook today? :-)
Yes, I'm curious too, why are we privileged? Well, there is a lot of
czechs here on list, but others are interested too, I think :)
>And you can bet Carl, that if some kind of voting would be here, it
>would end-up in some 10:0 pekr vs RT :-) Am I right folks? (don't dare
>to tell anything against my opinion here, or I will shoot you! -
Cyphre,
>what about some shoot'em up game? :-)
Pekr, you got my voice :) Let the sound be free! (and shell and
libraries too ;)
But about the shoot'em up - there actually IS one. Well, not by Cyphre,
I wrote it and with little bit corrupted graphic under new /view but you
can aim and shoot, aim and shoot, aim and shoot....
It's called Magion Gun and can be found on my REB > sites/rebolek/magion
gun
(only menu graphic is corrupted I think, game runs without problems)
bye, Bolek(re)
[21/30] from: carl:cybercraft at: 18-May-2002 10:17
On 17-May-02, Ingo Hohmann wrote:
>> What
>> about View/Pro features? Would be great to free(only at the same
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> Well, actually, I think there are many people out there who won't
> take Rebol seriously, unless all versions have shell/library.
With "free" library access, I'd worry about a lot of online scripts
appearing that require you to have OS x,y, or z to work, (well, 90%
OS x, actually), thus breaking REBOL's cross-platform support.
> I, myself, think that encryption is very immportant nowadays.
I do too and wish it was in all versions, but isn't there legal
problems with releasing encryption software? ie, they're not meant
to export encryption software above a certain level.
> Can live without sound, though.
Nah - REBOL could be real fun online, but it won't be if it's silent.
The Pro versions should be for developers and commercial use, but they
should include as many bells and whistles in the free versions as
possible to ensure users give it a second look.
--
Carl Read
[22/30] from: joel:neely:fedex at: 18-May-2002 10:02
Hi, Carl,
Hi, Carl,
Carl Read wrote:
> With "free" library access, I'd worry about a lot of online scripts
> appearing that require you to have OS x,y, or z to work, (well, 90%
> OS x, actually), thus breaking REBOL's cross-platform support.
>
Actually, OS X is quite nice. It's essentially a Mach kernel with
BSD Unix above that, with a Macintosh/NextStep GUI environment as
the main user interface.
;-)
OK, seriously...
I tried to make the same point of your comments above during a
previous thread about the "threat" of open source. The claim had
been made that opening the source of the REBOL interpreter was
likely to lead to forking of the language and the immanent demise
of cross-platform compatibility. My response is that ANY access
to system-dependent features (especially such things as binary
libraries) will allow someone to write code that will run on only
a single platform.
OTOH, I question whether that's a significant issue. It's always
possible for a programmer to write something that is so dependent
on a particular set of assumptions, resources, and "world view"
that it's just not worth the trouble to re-use it outside that
regime (and said regime can be as narrow as the mind of the one
who writes it... ;-) I'm much more concerned about whether we
have languages that are so richly applicable and platform-neutral
that they *avoid*forcing* us to write code with all of those
limiting dependencies.
Some of the more successful (in terms of number of users, range
of applications, supporting literature and publications, etc...)
languages, such as Perl, Python, Ruby, and Tcl have the property
that you *can* write platform-neutral code if you want to, but
you can also take advantage of platform-specific resources for
performance or functionality when you deem it appropriate. As
an interpreted, high-level language, REBOL must ultimately offer
access to system-specific resources or remain marginalized with
respect to applications where performance is an issue.
-jn-
--
; Joel Neely joeldotneelyatfedexdotcom
REBOL [] do [ do func [s] [ foreach [a b] s [prin b] ] sort/skip
do function [s] [t] [ t: "" foreach [a b] s [repend t [b a]] t ] {
| e s m!zauafBpcvekexEohthjJakwLrngohOqrlryRnsctdtiub} 2 ]
[23/30] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 20-May-2002 10:24
---- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Read" <[carl--cybercraft--co--nz]>
To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]>
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 12:17 AM
Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL momentum builds
> On 17-May-02, Ingo Hohmann wrote:
> >> What
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> appearing that require you to have OS x,y, or z to work, (well, 90%
> OS x, actually), thus breaking REBOL's cross-platform support.
Well, yes there could be lots of single-OS suited library wrappers but why
not? The dll interface is exactly for keeping your Rebol script closer to
specific system so you have to count with it. IMO these are two different
issues the language cross-platformity and library "plug-ins".
OTOH you shouldn't take the library support only as a extended part fo
special purposes.... when someone write cool wrapper for free or
open-sourced and crossplatform ported library why should Rebol users pay for
using it?
> > I, myself, think that encryption is very immportant nowadays.
> I do too and wish it was in all versions, but isn't there legal
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> should include as many bells and whistles in the free versions as
> possible to ensure users give it a second look.
Exactly, Rebol doesn't have to stay silent. Let the sound be free!
regards,
Cyphre
[24/30] from: ammon:rcslv at: 18-May-2002 20:54
Joel,
You couldn't have said it better!
Thanks!!
Ammon
A short time ago, Joel Neely, sent an email stating:
[25/30] from: chris:langreiter at: 21-May-2002 15:15
>> of cross-platform compatibility. My response is that ANY access
>> to system-dependent features (especially such things as binary
>> libraries) will allow someone to write code that will run on only
>> a single platform.
As an aside, people seem to be quite successful in enabling
cross-platform scripting language access to libraries like SDL (see
http://pygame.org/ as an example). Truly system-specific advantages
are diminishing anyway.
--c
[26/30] from: carl:cybercraft at: 23-May-2002 10:00
About time I replied to this. (:
On 19-May-02, Joel Neely wrote:
> I tried to make the same point of your comments above during a
> previous thread about the "threat" of open source. The claim had
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> a single platform.
> OTOH, I question whether that's a significant issue.
Okay. Turn off Java and Javascript and Flash and go for a surf and
see how long it is before you need one of those. All the free REBOL
needs is just one system-dependent feature that's as popular in its
scripts as they are on webpages and to all practical purposes it'll
have lost its cross-platform compatibility. Yes, I'll still be able
to write cross-platform scripts myself, but to "surf" the Desktop
pleasantly on all but a handful of systems? No, I very much doubt
it.
Also, what's to stop an OS vender from writing (or buying) the killer
add-on to REBOL that's only avaliable on their OS?
> It's always
> possible for a programmer to write something that is so dependent
<<quoted lines omitted: 14>>
> access to system-specific resources or remain marginalized with
> respect to applications where performance is an issue.
There's access to platform-specific stuff now in the commercial
versions of REBOL so you can have what you want locally or on servers
if you're willing to pay for it. But I see the free REBOL as more
akin to a browser than a language and access to scripts on the Reb
could easily become a cross-platform nightmare if platform-specific
support is included in it.
--
Carl Read
[27/30] from: hallvard:ystad:helpinhand at: 24-May-2002 22:42
Dixit Carl Sassenrath (19.57 15.05.2002):
>Dear REBOL List:
>
>===Webby
>===New REBOL Licensing
Now I registered and voted for Rebol as the best tech achievement. So when will licencing
be changed to free encap for noncommercial and small company clients?
>> make licence! $0.00
== :-)
~H
[28/30] from: belymt:saunalahti:fi at: 28-May-2002 4:39
Hi
Sorry for late reply but I did not see this announcement earlier. I have
been reading this list very rarely in last couple months since I
encountered difficulties with previous licensing method.
Now things have been changed, and I need to start looking Rebol again, as
I still have this need for making tools that are portable and have some Gui
and networking connectivity
One question: Can Rebol handle UDP packets? On those examples people are
allvays using TCP but we use UDP on our protocols to embedded systems.
Joanna
[29/30] from: brett:codeconscious at: 28-May-2002 13:31
Hi,
> One question: Can Rebol handle UDP packets? On those examples people are
> allvays using TCP but we use UDP on our protocols to embedded systems.
Yes, but I haven't used it. I have on occassion seen scripts floating around
that use it.
Maybe someone else will point you to some examples.
Brett.
[30/30] from: maarten:koopmans:surfnet:nl at: 28-May-2002 10:32
Yes it can.
Works like this for a server:
; open the udp server port
my-udp: open/no-wait udp://:9090
; wait max 100ms for events on the port
datagram?: wait [ my-udp 100]
;if there is a datagram copy the data
if datagram? [ data: copy my-udp]
And a client:
my-udp: open udp://somehost:someport
insert my-dup "lalala"
data: copy my-udp
See the Core user guide for more details.
--Maarten
Brett Handley wrote:
Notes
- Quoted lines have been omitted from some messages.
View the message alone to see the lines that have been omitted