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What should we bake?

 [1/19] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 22-Sep-2000 13:41


I have a few questions about some of the suggested programs that we volunteers should make. Collaborative Work Environment Thing: Instant messaging and file sharing is great, but can REBOL multitask or fakytask well enough to make this work??? REMACS: I like the idea of emacs clone thats operation is actually understandable. Mega popular--I dont think so. It does however closely resemble the collaborative work environment thing from your description. I like the idea of plugins too. Maybe I am just put off by its emacs reference. Anybody got more info on Carl's component idea? A spec would be nice. Web Site Control Utility: These type of things are growing in popularity, the next killer app? Could be. I could see this being easy to create with REBOL as well, of course depending on how in depth you wish to go. Could you explain more about this? Educational Software: Once again another tick for collaborative work environment. REBay: I like an application that you can make money with. Definately some popularity too. Sounds kind of shaky though, depending on how EBay decides to lay out thier web pages. REBOL is good for this type of app. Unfortuneately it does'nt leave many useful components around for other apps to use. Maybe a tool for automating web sites could arise out of this, what do you think? -- Ryan Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [2/19] from: rchristiansen:pop:isdfa:sei-it at: 22-Sep-2000 16:26


With companies like Register.com enticing everyone and their brother, dog, and grandmother to "register" their own domain, there will be increased demand for simple Web site building solutions. Tools like Microsoft Front Page are not the answer because the user still needs to use FTP and to understand too many other things about building a Web site. It is not simple enough. The simplest Web site building solution is a server-side application with a Web-based control panel. My vision is the following... 1. A user goes to a page on the Web where they can use the Web site building tool. After selecting which site functionalities they would like to include, they enter their credit card number, etc., and then move on to the site building process. 2. The user chooses the overall structure and layout and design of the site from a set of templates. Each template has a set of major regions where the user can choose to "plug in" the elements of a Web page, including photographs, chat interfaces, tables of links, journals, diaries, etc., etc. 3. The user finishes and clicks "Done." When the user is building the site, the program behind the interface could be building a REBOL script which executes upon visiting the user's URL and dynamically builds the page. The script is built using REBOL "plug-ins," functions designed to display a specific site element or designed to call upon some other functionality. Of course, the application should be using Cascading Style Sheets for better style control and the application would have to be tested against multiple browsers in multiple environments for the most consistent rendering possible.

 [3/19] from: al:bri:xtra at: 23-Sep-2000 11:12


> Collaborative Work Environment Thing: Instant messaging and file sharing
is great, but can REBOL multitask or fakytask well enough to make this work??? Multi-tasking was described as one of next things to go into Rebol by Carl recently. Using care and messaging and queues, one can "fakytask". Ryan wrote:
> Anybody got more info on Carl's component idea? A spec would be nice.
Here: http://www.egroups.com/files/Rebmail/Docs/rebmail-arch.html Andrew Martin ICQ: 26227169 http://members.ncbi.com/AndrewMartin/ http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/

 [4/19] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 22-Sep-2000 16:29


I can see some potential here for small business and individuals that dont get significant traffic, creating a REBOL a la CGI web site builder and manager. Wrap up the best of CGI. Market it to ISP's and register.coms? If it reduces ISP tech support calls, they may be happy to distribute it. On the downside this market seems to lack good inflection points--areas where you can gain entrance/acceptance into a market place. ISP's is one, but they may already set in thier ways when it comes to these things. Register.com's? They may have paying sponsors that would frown on this. Easily overlooked in the waft of supposed site builders at download.com. I cant see the conventional net search and word of mouth working too well for this app either. The application could be built in many versions, or with many add-on components--a plus. I can see such an application highly valuable to some people, but how do you get in thier hands? In fact this is a problem for any app. It should be self promoting, self dispensing. --Ryan [RChristiansen--pop--isdfa--sei-it--com] wrote:
> With companies like Register.com enticing everyone and their > brother, dog, and grandmother to "register" their own domain, there
<<quoted lines omitted: 23>>
> against multiple browsers in multiple environments for the most > consistent rendering possible.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [5/19] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 22-Sep-2000 17:53


Those interested in baking absolutely should see what they got cooking over at the RebMail project. There is much that can be learned from it. Since email is step 1 of a collaborative work environment, those set on doing that should help them out. http://www.egroups.com/group/Rebmail --Ryan Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [6/19] from: news:ted:husted at: 22-Sep-2000 22:43


On 9/22/2000 at 1:41 PM [ryanc--iesco-dms--com] wrote:
> Web Site Control Utility: These type of things are growing in
popularity, the next killer app? Could be. I could see this being easy to create with REBOL as well, of course depending on how in depth you wish to go. Could you explain more about this? Here's the feature set from the two I've seen. I know one of these was written in Perl. Dunno about the other. A REBOL version may have to use /COMMAND to access the command shell. -- + Change password + View Site statistics + Check resources (disk space, email, data transfer) + Manage POP mail accounts + Manage files - copy, rename, delete, change attribute + Protect directories, redirect URLS, + Archive files and folders + Create site from standard templates + Install optional modules - MySQL, FrontPage, et cetera + Install optional features - Search Engine, Anon FTP, Mailing List, PGP mail, + Install optional scripts - Hit counter, form mail, + Install new MIME types, security certificate, SSH + Trace routes + Contact support / Submit trouble ticket Server Management Manage Web Server Change your main server password Measure disk usage Install Webalizer(stats) Generate/View Web Stats Clear server logfiles Manage Email Services List all pop/ftp accounts Add a new pop/ftp account Modify an existing account Delete an existing account Configure email aliasing/forwarding Designate a site-wide default maildrop Configure autoresponding aliases Block unwanted email (spam) Advanced email for virtual hosts Create/Modify MailList Manage Ecommerce Services Order Merchant Account Order Transaction Gateway Install Gateway-Enabled Cart Manage Advanced Options List all Virtual Hosts Enable/Disable Logs How to password protect directories Set username passwords Create multiple usernames/passwords Set all cgi-bin programs executable Start/ Restart mSQL Server Stop mSQL Server Check Perl scripts for common errors Set file permissions on any file Untar a file Install New Services Order Internet Access Register Domain Name Add Front Page to a Virtual Host Add a Virtual Host vpanel Add a Virtual Host cgi-bin Install Virtual Host Webalizer Create a Guestbook Install Shopping Cart Install Support Queue Install mSQL Server -- I haven't stumbled over any apps like these in the CGI libraries, so it still seems like a NEW thing to me. And, of course, it is the type of project that can be written one script at a time. There was a story in an online article (perhaps apocryphal) that Carl decided to write REBOL while setting up a Lynx box. He supposedly thought to himself that there should be a single scripting language that could be used to handle all these services, and then sat down to work on REBOL. It would be cool to see that dream finally come true. -Ted.

 [7/19] from: rgaither:triad:rr at: 22-Sep-2000 23:04


Hi All,
>Educational Software: Once again another tick for collaborative work >environment.
This is the one I would vote for! Of course my main reason for exploring REBOL is to create such a beast so you could say I'm a bit biased. :-) All of the ideas I've seen floated so far for the killer app or 1000 apps have been good ones. I have my doubts though about REBOL (View mostly) being mature enough to handle such grand projects - just yet. After all, it is still a pre-beta! :-) For the time being, while we are learning View (or even Core for those of us late to the party!) I think small, specific purpose mini-apps remain the pick of the day. Think component size, not application size, but bigger than script tests. For example - 1. Take just the text editing part without all of an EMACS and focus on functions and objects that manipulate the text or display in developer defined ways. Think of ways to componentize transformations and elements of interaction. 2. Consider what is required to do connectivity centralized or peer to peer for any kind of application. Perhaps a dash or two of remote procedure calls and distributed event models as well. Usefull for collaboration or education or file sharing... 3. How to structure content and provide "Knowledge". Think how to do META work in REBOL. How to merge into other Internet work in these areas such as the various XML initiatives. 4. Find the components in REBOL's strengths. Use that built-in networking, create dynamic (data driven) visualizations with View, make dialects for users as well as developers and so on. This "Component" thinking is also very important to help identify standard ways to let REBOL code hook up and interact. The View launcher is a great start, letting a whole community come together and put up sites and samples that everyone can explore. If we keep building programs at the component level, stress testing View, then when it is ready for bigger and better things we will have a good leg up on Assembling multiple killer apps. My .02 (give or take a bit!). Rod. Rod Gaither [rgaither--triad--rr--com] modernlore.com Oak Ridge, NC USA

 [8/19] from: news:ted:husted at: 23-Sep-2000 11:18


> Since email is step 1 of a collaborative work environment, those set
on doing that should help them out. Personally, I'd say that a discussion board/BBS system would be step one, with file archives and email alerts being step two. A really good environment would be standards-based, so you could use any handy browser or email client, or enjoy the enhanced benefits of using a unified, properietary (a la /VIEW). Of course to remain competitive, Palm synchronization will be an absolute requirement. A RFC 822 compliant BBS would also be an interesting idea. -Ted.

 [9/19] from: jeff:rebol at: 23-Sep-2000 9:01


Howdy, Ted:
> Personally, I'd say that a discussion board/BBS system > would be step one, with file archives and email alerts > being step two.
Now there's a real good one. Take a look at the Ultimate BBS (http://infopop.com), which is written in PERL and is like 250k worth of scripts in size. The equivalent REBOL code should be like 50k or something. The key issue for doing a cgi based BBS is session management, authentication, authorization. Those issues have to be dealt with first in the design and implementation before moving on to any of the screens.
> A really good environment would be standards-based, so you > could use any handy browser or email client, or enjoy the > enhanced benefits of using a unified, properietary (a la > /VIEW). Of course to remain competitive, Palm > synchronization will be an absolute requirement.
A BBS that you can get to from the REB! How cool is that? -jeff

 [10/19] from: siegel:prodigy:mx at: 23-Sep-2000 12:30


At 11:18 a.m. 23/09/00 -0400, you wrote:
> > Since email is step 1 of a collaborative work environment, those set >on doing that should help them out. > >Personally, I'd say that a discussion board/BBS system would be step >one, with file archives and email alerts being step two.
I would welcome this, plus the changes previously proposed to Selma. A complete application like this would be a powerful promotion tool, too. I've been trying to put together a system to send out press releases using free Perl/CGI scripts as a prototype. What a hairball! Suppose you could offer a whole package -- just fill in the blanks -- maybe add credit card billing, shopping cart and database modules? I'd call it E-Commerce Imbecile. Never mind for dummies, how about imbeciles like me? -- JULES SIEGEL Apdo 1764 Cancun Q. Roo 77501 http://www.cafecancun.com Fax1.530.706.8739 Tel 1.52.98 83.36.29

 [11/19] from: gmassar:dreamsoft at: 23-Sep-2000 11:29


[news--ted--husted--com] wrote: ...
> A really good environment would be standards-based, so you could use > any handy browser or email client, or enjoy the enhanced benefits of > using a unified, properietary (a la /VIEW). Of course to remain > competitive, Palm synchronization will be an absolute requirement.
Ahh! Now someone mentioned Palm synchronization. The main reason why I came into this ml is to learn REBOL and then implement DOC compression/decompression alogrithm widely popular among Palm users if REBOL is a good candidate. See http://www.memoware.com to get an idea how DOC-formatted documents were applied. This site is one of the largest library housing PD documents in DOC format. Those documents can be easily downloaded for Palm users to read/view. Most of them were compressed by DOC compression algorithm before downloading. In the Palm PDA, the reader/viewer apps then decompressed and displayed the documents to read/view. Very large documents can be synchronized easily into the PDA, eg, the whole set of infamous Starr Reports can be loaded into PDA with just 2MB and there is more room for other apps. What I am aiming to accomplish is to implement the decompression in REBOL and via CGI, the documents in DOC format can be easily viewed with a Web browser before synchronizing. If any user wants to read the documents offline, he/she could download the wanted documents into his/her PDA to read later. The alogrithm was invented and written in C by Pat Berne (sp?) who is (or was) the CTO of Corel. The code is now in public domain. In order to use the alogrithm,I need to convert the code by hand into Pascal for my desktop Windows app, namely BigDOC. It is a specialized text editor with the compression code and Palm synchronization. See it at http://Visionary2000.com/BigDOC if you like. Since I am not ready for REBOL, would anybody be interested in converting the code into REBOL. If so, just ask for the code in either C, Pascal or Java. I have all of them on hand. The code in REBOL will remain in public, of course. Any taker? Geo...

 [12/19] from: news:ted:husted at: 23-Sep-2000 15:21


On 9/23/2000 at 12:30 PM [siegel--prodigy--net--mx] wrote:
> I've been trying to put together a system to send out press releases
using free Perl/CGI scripts as a prototype. What a hairball! Here's a script I use to manage a small mailing list. --- #!\usr\bin\rebol REBOL[ Title: "ATW Script Mailing List (atwscripts.r)" ] ; - Load mailing list atwscripts: make block! load %atwscripts.txt ; - Setup Internet mail set-net [ [webmaster--wxxi--org] fc.wxxi.org ] ; - Setup Header atwheader: make system/standard/email [ From: "Assignment: the World <[thusted--wxxi--org]>" Subject: "ATW Script for this week" Organization: "Assignment the World - WXXI Online" ] ; - Send it send/header atwscripts read %atwscript.txt atwheader quit --- What I'm sending out is saved in a plain-text file - "atwscript.txt", and the list of recipients is another plain-text file - atwscripts.txt - just a list of [whomever--whereever--com's]. At one time I used the bulk mail refinement, but AOL bounced to many messages that way. -Ted.

 [13/19] from: news:ted:husted at: 23-Sep-2000 15:21


On 9/23/2000 at 11:29 AM [gmassar--dreamsoft--com] wrote:
> Since I am not ready for REBOL, would anybody be interested in
converting the code into REBOL. If so, just ask for the code in either C, Pascal or Java. I have all of them on hand. The code in REBOL will remain in public, of course. I would be interested in the Java version of the DOC compression code. -Ted.

 [14/19] from: news:ted:husted at: 23-Sep-2000 15:39


On 9/23/2000 at 9:01 AM [jeff--rebol--net] <[jeff--rebol--net]> wrote:
> Now there's a real good one. Take a look at the Ultimate BBS
(http://infopop.com), which is written in PERL and is like 250k worth of scripts in size. The equivalent REBOL code should be like 50k or something. I actually have that one installed, and people really enjoy using it. Works like a charm. But we're moving away from Perl, so I'm looking at a new open source board, Jive. In fact, I'm installing a test copy this afternoon. For reference, the class folder (it's Java) is 250k, and the source is 660k.
> The equivalent REBOL code should be like 50k or something.
So what's your point of reference for an application as easy-to-configure and feature-rich as Ultimate BBS?
> The key issue for doing a cgi based BBS is session management,
authentication, authorization. Those issues have to be dealt with first in the design and implementation before moving on to any of the screens. Interestingly, Jive's < http://www.coolservlets.com/jive > major selling feature is they separate presentation from the backend. It supports user-selectable "skins" (UI's), and well as programatic filters recall data from the pluggable backend to the skin. -Ted.

 [15/19] from: joel:neely:fedex at: 23-Sep-2000 16:00


[gmassar--dreamsoft--com] wrote:
> What I am aiming to accomplish is to implement the decompression > in REBOL and via CGI, the documents in DOC format can be easily
<<quoted lines omitted: 8>>
> Palm synchronization. See it at http://Visionary2000.com/BigDOC > if you like.
That URL gets me a 404.
> Since I am not ready for REBOL, would anybody be interested in > converting the code into REBOL. If so, just ask for the code in > either C, Pascal or Java. I have all of them on hand. The code > in REBOL will remain in public, of course. > > Any taker?
I'm interested in looking at it. I don't have the time to do the conversion as a top-priority project, but might be able to pitch in some ideas along the way. -jn-

 [16/19] from: gmassar:dreamsoft at: 23-Sep-2000 14:33


> > The alogrithm was invented and written in C by Pat Berne (sp?) > > who is (or was) the CTO of Corel. The code is now in public
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> > > That URL gets me a 404.
Sorry, but didn't know url is case sensitive. So, BigDOC should be in lower-case.
> > > > Since I am not ready for REBOL, would anybody be interested in
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> conversion as a top-priority project, but might be able to pitch > in some ideas along the way.
Thanks. I gather you want C version? Geo...

 [17/19] from: joel:neely:fedex at: 23-Sep-2000 23:02


[gmassar--dreamsoft--com] wrote:
> Sorry, but didn't know url is case sensitive. So, BigDOC should > be in lower-case. >
Got it!
> Thanks. I gather you want C version? >
Ooops! Should have said, shouldn't I? C is fine. -jn-

 [18/19] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 25-Sep-2000 11:02


I agree, components, components, components! And yes, it is just now barely usable for real applications. There may be something that we will need RT to address on the way. I tend to believe RT knows this as well, and is readying itself for this stage of its business. --Ryan [rgaither--triad--rr--com] wrote:
> Hi All, > >Educational Software: Once again another tick for collaborative work
<<quoted lines omitted: 33>>
> Oak Ridge, NC > USA
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

 [19/19] from: ryanc:iesco-dms at: 25-Sep-2000 11:04


Yes I agree. I felt a bit uneasy, yet very excited about RebMail, when made this post. News reader/News servers are really important. E-mail lists are a bit too disorientating as they fill up. This of course is a client/server approach. Hmmm... Good standard, though. I would like to see a way to make it more peer to peer like, yet keep the standard. --Ryan [news--ted--husted--com] wrote:
> > Since email is step 1 of a collaborative work environment, those set > on doing that should help them out.
<<quoted lines omitted: 6>>
> A RFC 822 compliant BBS would also be an interesting idea. > -Ted.
-- Ryan Cole Programmer Analyst www.iesco-dms.com 707-468-5400 I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world. -Einstein

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