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OT: Paul Graham on hacker's radar

 [1/5] from: bry::itnisk::com at: 3-Oct-2003 10:43


http://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html Over time, hackers develop a nose for good (and bad) technology. I thought it might be interesting to try and write down what made Java seem suspect to me. I don't know if one develops a nose for such a blunt thing, I think one develops a nose for technology that will most likely appeal to one. Rebol really strikes me as something that would appeal to me, but I never seem to have the time to focus on it, because despite its appeal it has weird licensing, and poor xml support. I have to focus on languages I can use in product development, and I have to work with xml all the time. So when I look at Rebol aesthetically I think, hmm I could get really good with this thing, but when I look at Rebol from the perspective of what I need I think, well better start up the old VS.NET Other people on this list do find Rebol practical for their needs, as well as their aesthetics, can you specify what exactly in your needs Rebol answers?

 [2/5] from: maarten:vrijheid at: 3-Oct-2003 13:01


Bryan,
> Rebol really strikes me as something that would appeal to me, but I > never seem to have the time to focus on it, because despite its appeal > it has weird licensing, and poor xml support. I have to focus on > languages I can use in product development, and I have to work with xml > all the time. >
The licensing is OK now, buy the SDK and your all set. As for the XML stuff: why not enhance it yourself ;-)
> So when I look at Rebol aesthetically I think, hmm I could get really > good with this thing, but when I look at Rebol from the perspective of > what I need I think, well better start up the old VS.NET >
I know the feeling. It has to do with needing "acceptable" things. In other words: your are not alone but will have to interoperate. Every now and then there is a chance for something isolated, and *then* you can use whatever you like. E.g. I recently discovered that the SDK makes for a great install toolkit, as you can embed binaries, do GUIs and be cross-platform.

 [3/5] from: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 3-Oct-2003 13:50


Am Freitag, 3. Oktober 2003 10:43 schrieb bryan:
> http://www.paulgraham.com/javacover.html > "Over time, hackers develop a nose for good (and bad) technology. I
<<quoted lines omitted: 13>>
> well as their aesthetics, can you specify what exactly in your needs > Rebol answers?
All following IMHO, and i am not qualified! ;) Rebol is for: Interaction with people. people-computer and people-people. the computer-computer-interaction (xml, libraries) is second class goal. Example: Years ago i talked with my sister. she was in some buereau which did the distribution of something in germany. lots of variants (blade cxtt34) and customers (which may have some special conditions). she handled the orders, keeping an eye of stuff in store. They had some professional db to track that. She told me how cleverly she organized her desktop. thats this piece of wood. Some smart placing paper-notes to look the main customers quick up, and such. sometimes she had to go to the storehouse and talk to the people, because something in the inventory was wrong. it was only a some rooms away. so the professional application could not help with some often done associations. A simple list on paper could. Listening sometimes this notepaper-thing was more or less common. a simple text-list added to the entry-fields with a hotkey may have helped here. wonderfull xml-magic not. Analogies IMHO its not the mass or complexity where rebol shines. people have a long tradition of compressing information. some things are very complex, like a plane. pilotes use checklists before takeof. those checklists are very simple from a IT-view. they have extremely complex content. starting the engine means press this button and that and watch the needle here and.. no problem for the human pilot, while coding that, uuuh. but forgetting to start the engine can happen to this high qualified human. (ok, not the engine. something minor but..) Hype ;) so for an IT, this list is that ridiculous small, it does not need much attention. for the pilot, he could not care more. thats what rebol shines. supporting this lists. thats why IOS is great, without rich-text, xml and everything sophisticated. The list will be there. and it does not need rich-text too. For an IT, maybe compare it to the rootblock of a filesystem. when it works, no problem with lots of gigs. when it breaks.. (i lack business english, sorry) greetings, -Volker

 [4/5] from: bry:itnisk at: 3-Oct-2003 13:46


>The licensing is OK now, buy the SDK and your all set. As for the XML >stuff: why not enhance it yourself ;-)
Yeah, the licensing doesn't seem so bad as it was, unfortunately now I'm in the situation I have to bite the bullet and buy it for myself. For someone living in Denmark and working at non-US wages that can be a significant investment. :) but actually think I will be making it sometime in the next month, have some extra earnings coming soon. The problem with building xml support is it isn't fun, especially when one has all the support one needs elsewhere. What I want is to build a client-server between Rebol and Erlang. :)

 [5/5] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 3-Oct-2003 23:22


Hi Bryan, b> Other people on this list do find Rebol practical for their needs, as b> well as their aesthetics, can you specify what exactly in your needs b> Rebol answers? For me, the current technical needs seem less important than some other things, but I'm a pragmatic person, so it has to have technical merit in the here-and-now as well. I'm not a web guy, but with REBOL I can write things that work on the net almost transparently when compared with writing standard desktop apps. I have complete control (but with good defaults for the most part) and I'm cross platform at no cost. My apps can be *completely* self-contained and, except for a small number of known issues, everything is rock solid. It's small and simple. So far, everything I've wanted to do with REBOL I've been able to do. Some have been a bit of work (library interfaces, not REBOL's fault) and some are too slow, but other stuff has blown me away at how easy, small, and solid it turns out to be. REBOL made programming fun for me again. It lets me think in new ways and stretch my mind. I love the community around it too. It's cool as a programming language, but it will be cooler when we start seeing how to use it even more in line with its true strength; communication. I'm excited about REBOL now, but more excited about it in the future. It's like VB at 1.0. Some people got it; most scoffed. -- Gregg

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