Mailing List Archive: 49091 messages
  • Home
  • Script library
  • AltME Archive
  • Mailing list
  • Articles Index
  • Site search

[REBOL] Re: One-Liners back in town!

From: gerardcote:sympatico:ca at: 24-Nov-2002 10:31

Hi Ashley, I'm glad you're completely ON TRACK with this most pertinent remark since it goes hand in hand with my pov. this is why I recommend to well document every one-liner (even shortly if no time avail or if don't see the necessity to do it thoroughly) as to what it does first and if it must be splitted further in simpler things, THIS MUST ABSOLUTELY be done according to me - for newcomers and as we commonly say here "for posterity", and that comes with some clear idea to me about the why and how of all that : teaching REBOL to youngsters and other learners too. But since I know that every spirit must also be free to think to his dreams, we can't stop everyone to dream about what can be done in a one-liner, even if this counts as many small "disjoint but cumulative effect" steps. We should however help others to better understand REBOL by shedding some light to every fine details that can be a REAL WALL when you come to REBOL for the many first times. So here is my real idea about all those one-liners, relative to every one-liner created in some way : 1) For every submit - to keep FUN and SURPRISE for everyone that listens, the author should do its best to seperately submit (later if he doesn't want to kill the ORIGINAL spirit of such an informal contest and the flame that goes with it as I really feel it in this ML now!!! and I share this with everybody else very much you can believe me ... since it is an attractive, distractive and informal way to learn some new material - As a teacher I suggest that more if not most courses and classes should follow and include this pattern for many parts of every syllabi or even entire curricula as pragmatic ways to help motivate learners, create a better learning efficiency and help keeping retention for so many details - Oups! SORRY for this long paren but I like to think in REBOL myself with the add-on of any new concept I recently learned and since Carl READ remindde me of the usefulness of Paren when we are using some DIALECTS I have catched it now but ... For a sysnthesis, every submit should be accompanied - but separately delivered and later if the creator chooses to do it so - by doc that should clearly present all the global goal, and the small steps that had to be put together to get the work done, and in some cases slightly explain in global terms the real difficulties that had to be overcome - that is the many improvement or modifs that gave way to the final submit and that without it could be very difficult to figure out the HOW and WHY of every word or combination of it - don't neglect too that in some cases, you can refer to some OFFICIAL doc or discovery explaining where you found your own doc. It could help others to go further too. In fact keep it in the 2 complementary spirits that shloud be everywhere - when time and pleasure comes along for sure but it doesn't need to be in the same moment : keep it fun for yourself and others to read and as simple as possible even if this part needs some explanations of the way you finally got it + the steps when needed. This alone will warrant the survival of REBOL and its friendliness as a real tool in the life of the many others that otherwise will leave it - you can't consider it as a big part of the NATURE truth - but I am not a prophet, I simply analysed for more than 20 years now how ppl learn : if it is fun and understandable - to some extent this can't go over some limit however and I agree for this too. Sorry for this lengthy discussion but I really thinks that some foundation of the current spirit the programming comes from this kind of feeling and I would like REBOL to CONTINUE to be a TRUE part of it for many more ppl that comes and currently say : Wow it seems fun but I can't take too much time to learn it - since it seems so different and so powerful, the learbning curve must be so high - and really it is in some regards but keeping it fun and entertaining is the way to go without regrets, except for the authors that didn't know that they were teaching others that are listening them. After all we all teach others something in the life ... and those that bettr stand the road of success in this way are those that keep HIGH the motivation and fill in good part most of the interests of their listeners - simply think about humorists and good teachers you got in school and those about whom you are remembering of ... Thanks for listening, and keep submitting new DISCOVERY One-liner (or many more lines if you prefer) stuff Gerard P.S. Ashely you got it the first time and I simply waited until someone would digress about the way I did it when adding the DISPLAY part in addition to the CREATE part of the original submit. the idea was submitted by someone else but I retained the idea because sometimes someone dreams of something to do and this idea is grouping in fact many small steps ... but you already know all this - I simply wanted to shed some light to it in FAVOR of keep it simple for others even if this must be in a mix and match way !!! Furthermore your explanation of the 2 following submits are a really nice discussion of the kind of doc or discussion I think should accompany (or follow) any REBOL script, and many of the finer points you raised are worth their weight in gold for every newcomer to REBOL (Thanks to my dictionary for this expression- Copyright 2000, Harrap's Multimedia, 2000, Havas Interactive) in the way someone thinks to resolve the difficulties added (surely not put there on a voluntary basis) by the creator, that is not prone to by going from a general solution to a specialized (or refined) one. For example you clearly solved for me many of the questions I had about to figure out how was the clock script using all these messy details (parameters). I didn't find the time nor the docs right at hand on my first reading and I simply put it aside for future study - but I don't know when I would have done it - until I really would have needed it I think ... Keep it clear in the intentions without adding some details in the first run - just to keep it under the 80 chars limit. I am sure this spirit alone can ATTRACT and RETAIN many more ppl to the REBOL community and keep them sticked to the language itself better than any other advertizing ... even if it is necessary to spread the word about. The logic here is when they will come our troups must be ready to support them without too much overhead for us too. As a newcomer I think I should get so much self-study material (going the described way) as I am further able to take myself in charge of my own success story when it comes to learn and use REBOL on a first basis. But I nevertheless love this ML ... and you all for your inestimable support and to be so attentive to our needs as newcomers. Thanks again!