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[REBOL] The day before, the day after, time to leave? ...

From: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 22-Sep-2000 7:23

Hi, the day before I left for my business trip, I answered to Bo's email sent to Phoenix ml asking why evyryone talks MS C# but not REBOL/View, so let's start with it: ----- Original Message ----- From: <[bo--rebol--com]> To: <[phoenix--phinixi--com]> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:19 PM Subject: RE: [PhX] C Octothorpe
> Rennie and others, > > I am wondering why there is so much hype about C# but so little in the
> about REBOL? I'm not just asking this because I work at REBOL, it's
> I really want to know. REBOL is available on almost every 32-bit
> and every binary is supported by the same company. Can Java, C#,
Perl, or
> any of the others say that? Also, REBOL embraces the epitome of
> theory and design unlike its competitors. > > Did you know that you can download a beta (Experimental) of REBOL/View
> several different popular platforms that includes a graphical network > script upon startup? It's available at There's an
> bug to work out in the Amiga version that doesn't allow the script to
> other scripts from the interface, but at least you can get a feel for
> until the bug is fixed (it's still a beta after all). > > Hey, there's even a visual layout editor available for REBOL/View.
> got a lot of fervent interest, but why isn't the whole world going mad
> it? > > Perhaps you can see better than I as I'm looking out from this side of
> glass wall. > > Curiously,
Bo, you know me man :-) I am starting to sound to myself as constantly complaining guy here, but well, I can see the reasons for that: I think RT marketing strategy failed. You have product defined, but who organised any series of interviews etc? Look at your history part of website. There were articles on Rebol at least one per month. I endlessly times asked about clear signal about pricing policy: 1) Got no answer thru ml 2) I can see RT strategy as chaotic sometimes - look at product announcements (e.g. Command two years ago), /Browse, /Tool etc. which are probably cancelled 3) I have some private pricing info from Tom and have to say I think RT is gonna kill REBOL ;-/ I just hope for: - clear definition of product and pricing strategy really soon now. I also offered to set separate ml for such issues ... - separate pricing for /Command and /Express. I HOPE I am not wrong thinking price levels Tom discussed with me moved to /Express solution, freeing /Command for hobbyist - or even more openly - move /Shell and /Library into /Core for free! /Core language concepts are stable enoug! Each other language has ability for extensions, some of them are open sourced. Look at what is RT doing. We have /Apache based upon /Core. So we have Apache module with no database support, it's just silly and I really can't understand how RT wants to get mid-web developers involved, as there is PHP for free with MySQL(and other format support). We have /Command with database support but only one way we can call /Command is via CGI. But NO Apache admin will leave PHP module in favor of CGI. What's more - we still don't know /Command pricing ... - RT should imho concentrate upon consulting, /Express is the right way and I sincerely hope enough effort is being put back into core technology development/advancement - if RT thinks big guys are the way to go - so be it. But technologies like ICQ, Gnutella, Napster became popular thru public presence. In real - NOONE in big companies cares about some REBOL or so. I work for big company very near management and know how things work. Big guys choosing another's big guys products ... - do /Browse plug-in and go at least for Mozilla, Opera bundle. I can assure you /View forms with type checking etc. would be cool ... - we miss some more media stuff, some global support functionality for image effects support (matrice operations), simply areas enabling ppl come to REBOL and bring new stuff. Without /Library and /Shell being in /Core language we are doomed. I have no time for MySQL library wrapper, so I would surely buy one from RT, just move it to /Core ... OK, we are with you 4 years Bo, now let's see what RT strategy is going to be about. I like REBOL so much I am really scared of answer .... Friendly, -pekr- ---------------------------- The day after. I can see strong discussion about /Command release on the ml. The discussion itself reflects something. It wouldn't be needed, if something RT shows us wouldn't be worth calling a failure. Alen, please, don't be disappointed at Ted's opinions. I have to agree with Ted on many issues (although I don't care so much of open source). Look at it from another perspective. How long are we asking about feature list and bug list being publicly available? Nothing happened. Look at what is RT doing. The form of announcement - one even can't know what is he/she buying. No licence agreement describing in what way could we as commercial developers use the product before we buy? What's that? I don't understand what I am buying from the info being present on website and it costs me half the sallary here. I like REBOL technology so much, I like also certain people at RT. I just start to loose my faith in RT itself, which seems to behave like shadow company with unclear/not-transparent-enough strategy changing every two months. Elan, as for /View, I am not sure the product will make it. Your opinions are right in many ways, you just forget something ... You mention /View spread to the public usage. But - you forget to mention RT LIMITING the usage. RT refused modularisation of REBOL as they don't believe it would bring them some money. They refused /Browse as they are not sure about its success. In opposite, - me, as a customer, would accept model as one and only /Core, with possibility to buy and plug-in what do I like, what do I need - e.g. just /Library and /View, e.g. just /View and /Shell, e.g. just /ODBC, etc. Now we've got /Command which component behavior we can't influence? Great, I can tell you I need two products - /Command with /View being in one, and /Apache + /Library for MySQL library wrapper. H*ll, I would even pay RT for small few kb MySQL wrapper Jeff did. And even 100 USD if I know that 1) I have no time or skills for developing it myself 2) will know it could become killer solution, once modules capability is added into /Core, as CGI is not what web dev. community will turn back to easily. Isn't /View great for forms e.g.? You can very easily check an entry is of type email for e.g., can't you. If RT would make /Browse at least for few browsers, bundle it, maybe it would be the way how developers/users would start to see the oportunities ... ... Time to leave after four years of loyality? PS: I like REBOL so much I would even pay for being present on some established channel for those being interested to having some at least limited access to some info of "REBOL glimpse of future" ... Sadly, -pekr-