[REBOL] The day before, the day after, time to leave? ...
From: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 22-Sep-2000 7:23
Hi,
the day before I left for my business trip, I answered to Bo's email
sent to Phoenix ml asking why evyryone talks MS C# but not REBOL/View,
so let's start with it:
----- Original Message -----
From: <[bo--rebol--com]>
To: <[phoenix--phinixi--com]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: [PhX] C Octothorpe
> Rennie and others,
>
> I am wondering why there is so much hype about C# but so little in the
media
> about REBOL? I'm not just asking this because I work at REBOL, it's
that
> I really want to know. REBOL is available on almost every 32-bit
platform
> and every binary is supported by the same company. Can Java, C#,
Perl, or
> any of the others say that? Also, REBOL embraces the epitome of
interpreter
> theory and design unlike its competitors.
>
> Did you know that you can download a beta (Experimental) of REBOL/View
for
> several different popular platforms that includes a graphical network
> script upon startup? It's available at www.rebol.com. There's an
annoying
> bug to work out in the Amiga version that doesn't allow the script to
launch
> other scripts from the interface, but at least you can get a feel for
it
> until the bug is fixed (it's still a beta after all).
>
> Hey, there's even a visual layout editor available for REBOL/View.
We've
> got a lot of fervent interest, but why isn't the whole world going mad
about
> it?
>
> Perhaps you can see better than I as I'm looking out from this side of
the
> glass wall.
>
> Curiously,
Bo, you know me man :-) I am starting to sound to myself as constantly
complaining guy here, but well, I can see the reasons for that:
I think RT marketing strategy failed. You have product defined, but who
organised any series of interviews etc? Look at your history part of
website. There were articles on Rebol at least one per month.
I endlessly times asked about clear signal about pricing policy:
1) Got no answer thru ml
2) I can see RT strategy as chaotic sometimes - look at product
announcements (e.g. Command two years ago), /Browse, /Tool etc. which
are
probably cancelled
3) I have some private pricing info from Tom and have to say I think RT
is
gonna kill REBOL ;-/
I just hope for:
- clear definition of product and pricing strategy really soon now. I
also
offered to set separate ml for such issues ...
- separate pricing for /Command and /Express. I HOPE I am not wrong
thinking
price levels Tom discussed with me moved to /Express solution, freeing
/Command for hobbyist
- or even more openly - move /Shell and /Library into /Core for free!
/Core
language concepts are stable enoug! Each other language has ability for
extensions, some of them are open sourced. Look at what is RT doing. We
have
/Apache based upon /Core. So we have Apache module with no database
support,
it's just silly and I really can't understand how RT wants to get
mid-web
developers involved, as there is PHP for free with MySQL(and other
format
support). We have /Command with database support but only one way we can
call /Command is via CGI. But NO Apache admin will leave PHP module in
favor
of CGI. What's more - we still don't know /Command pricing ...
- RT should imho concentrate upon consulting, /Express is the right way
and
I sincerely hope enough effort is being put back into core technology
development/advancement
- if RT thinks big guys are the way to go - so be it. But technologies
like
ICQ, Gnutella, Napster became popular thru public presence. In real -
NOONE
in big companies cares about some REBOL or so. I work for big company
very
near management and know how things work. Big guys choosing another's
big
guys products ...
- do /Browse plug-in and go at least for Mozilla, Opera bundle. I can
assure
you /View forms with type checking etc. would be cool ...
- we miss some more media stuff, some global support functionality for
image
effects support (matrice operations), simply areas enabling ppl come to
REBOL
and bring new stuff. Without /Library and /Shell being in /Core language
we
are doomed. I have no time for MySQL library wrapper, so I would surely
buy
one from RT, just move it to /Core ...
OK, we are with you 4 years Bo, now let's see what RT strategy is going
to
be about. I like REBOL so much I am really scared of answer ....
Friendly,
-pekr-
----------------------------
The day after. I can see strong discussion about /Command release on the
ml. The discussion itself reflects something. It wouldn't be needed, if
something RT shows us wouldn't be worth calling a failure.
Alen, please, don't be disappointed at Ted's opinions. I have to agree
with Ted on many issues (although I don't care so much of open source).
Look at it from another perspective. How long are we asking about
feature list and bug list being publicly available? Nothing happened.
Look at what is RT doing. The form of announcement - one even can't know
what is he/she buying. No licence agreement describing in what way could
we as commercial developers use the product before we buy? What's that?
I don't understand what I am buying from the info being present on
website and it costs me half the sallary here.
I like REBOL technology so much, I like also certain people at RT. I
just start to loose my faith in RT itself, which seems to behave like
shadow company with unclear/not-transparent-enough strategy changing
every two months.
Elan, as for /View, I am not sure the product will make it. Your
opinions are right in many ways, you just forget something ... You
mention /View spread to the public usage. But - you forget to mention RT
LIMITING the usage. RT refused modularisation of REBOL as they don't
believe it would bring them some money. They refused /Browse as they are
not sure about its success. In opposite, - me, as a customer, would
accept model as one and only /Core, with possibility to buy and plug-in
what do I like, what do I need - e.g. just /Library and /View, e.g. just
/View and /Shell, e.g. just /ODBC, etc. Now we've got /Command which
component behavior we can't influence? Great, I can tell you I need two
products - /Command with /View being in one, and /Apache + /Library for
MySQL library wrapper. H*ll, I would even pay RT for small few kb MySQL
wrapper Jeff did. And even 100 USD if I know that 1) I have no time or
skills for developing it myself 2) will know it could become killer
solution, once modules capability is added into /Core, as CGI is not
what web dev. community will turn back to easily.
Isn't /View great for forms e.g.? You can very easily check an entry is
of type email for e.g., can't you. If RT would make /Browse at least for
few browsers, bundle it, maybe it would be the way how developers/users
would start to see the oportunities ...
... Time to leave after four years of loyality?
PS: I like REBOL so much I would even pay for being present on some
established channel for those being interested to having some at least
limited access to some info of "REBOL glimpse of future" ...
Sadly,
-pekr-
