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Rebol on IPAQ ?

 [1/7] from: jasonic:nomadics at: 13-Feb-2005 6:47


Hi Is anyone here running Rebol/View on IPAQ PocketPC devices? iPAQs seem to be very popular in Medicine. Because of small memory footprint etc, Rebol should be an ideal platform to create apps for IPAQa and similar. You have a real advantage / market opportunity here :-) thanks Jason

 [2/7] from: pwawood::mango::net::my at: 13-Feb-2005 14:49


Jason Rebol/View is not yet available for Windows/CE. Far from having a small memory footprint, Rebol consumes large chunks of memory. (That's why there isn't a Palm OS version). Peter

 [3/7] from: chris:langreiter at: 14-Feb-2005 17:13


> Is anyone here running Rebol/View on IPAQ PocketPC devices?
I really don't get why RT doesn't embrace that obvious market. I think that most commercial applications of PocketPCs involve data gathering (i.e. forms) and some kind of synchronization. Regarding the latter, what language is better suited than REBOL with its natural data storage and exchange capabilities (load, save, send - more than enough for most apps)? Which toolkit makes simple forms easier than REBOL/View?
> You have a real advantage / market opportunity here :-)
I think so too. PocketPCs could be the niche REBOL has been searching for a long time. -- Chris

 [4/7] from: ammon::johnson::gmail::com at: 14-Feb-2005 9:39


If you can get Linux with X-Windows running on an IPAQ then you could, theoretically, get View running on it but I expect that considering the amount of memory that X-Windows generally takes, there wouldn't be much RAM left for View... Enjoy!! ~~Ammon ;~> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:13:38 +0100, Christian Langreiter <[chris--langreiter--com]> wrote:
> > Is anyone here running Rebol/View on IPAQ PocketPC devices? > I really don't get why RT doesn't embrace that obvious market. I think
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> To unsubscribe from the list, just send an email to rebol-request > at rebol.com with unsubscribe as the subject.
-- Enjoy!! ~~~ Ammon ~~~ ~ Sui Generis ~ ~~~~ ;~> ~~~~

 [5/7] from: greggirwin::mindspring::com at: 14-Feb-2005 14:39


P> Far from having a small memory footprint, Rebol consumes large P> chunks of memory. (That's why there isn't a Palm OS version). CE should work though (Palm used to have severe restrictions, maybe it still does). View is memory hungry because of VID. REBOL/Face weighs in at around 700-800K in memory. Of course, then we'll want better low-level View docs. :) -- Gregg

 [6/7] from: berniegs:prodigy at: 13-Feb-2005 10:37


Hi, I concur. I don't think there's much competition in this space for a lightweight development tool on the PocketPC. There's JScript, and VBScript (gag) built in, and not much else. The pros use Visual Studio .Net (double gag), but that's certainly not lightweight. Unlike the Palm OS, the Windows/Mobile OS has no memory model problems, and CPU speed is quite good. The Rebol/Core release for the PPC seems to be way down-level, so there's little portability left here, and it isn't terribly useful without the /View component. The Pocket PC is an extremely capable and versatile device, and it would be even more so with the availability of a good portable development tool. I think Rebol/View for the PPC would be a real winner. Regards, Bernie Schneider The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. -- Friedrich Nietzsche --

 [7/7] from: jasonic:nomadics at: 16-Feb-2005 11:50


> Rebol/View is not yet available for Windows/CE. > Far from having a small memory footprint, Rebol consumes large chunks of > memory. (That's why there isn't a Palm OS version).
Thanks.. I see. I'd always thought and read about Rebol as being tiny and lightweight. Now I am really wondering. How much memory are we talking about? How variable is Rebol's use of memory? How does it compare to other PocketPC development tools? I still find it hard to believe that Rebol cannot compete well with other development tools. More importantly that cool applications developed with Rebol cannot compete with others. Customers [aka commercial end-users] rarely care what language/SDK was used. They just want performance design features and price! So there is now a booming PocketPC market already for so many cool little personal database and messaging applications. Reminds me of HyperCard and then the ActiveX / COM market about 9 years ago. --- Gadget World --- Apple's new OSX10.4 'Tiger' http://developer.apple.com/macosx/tiger/index.html is now touting something like that also with 'Dashboard' http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html Dashboard Gadgets [Widgets] are created using a mix of HTML, JavaScript, and CSS Dashboard seems at first glance to be a rip-off of Konfabulator http://www.konfabulator.com/ Some differences are discussed here http://daringfireball.net/2004/06/dashboard_vs_konfabulator Both are the excellent examples of what Rebol/View applets should be, given a fertile environment [Quartz] and design attitude. --- REBOL/PocketPC ??? --- jc >> You have a real advantage / market opportunity here :-) chris > I think so too. PocketPCs could be the niche REBOL has been searching for a long time. Yes and as I read though the lists and reviews of the PocketPC commercial and freeware apps, they almost all sound like could/should/would be REBOL/View apps. The exceptions are the ones which play video or record sound. Both areas where REBOL has nothing to offer -- unless it uses Command to call some library. In fact that's what most PocketPC apps are doing - they seem to be nice little dedicated wrappers for .NET dlls for example 'HanDBase' is a cool database tool http://www.ddhsoftware.com/ check out their tutorials at http://www.ddhsoftware.com/TrainingVideos/HanDBase/ [flash] Sites which give a quick flavor of what PocketPC market might be for Rebol apps are PocketPC magazine http://www.pocketpcmag.com/_top/ PocketNow ["it's all about portability"] http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php PocketPCSoft NET [software and freeware] http://www.pocketpcsoft.net/ PocketGear http://www.pocketgear.com/index.asp DevvBuzz.com [Handheld development] http://www.devbuzz.com/content/ --- TabletPC --- Another platform where REBOL could do well is TabletPC. There is no REBOL porting time and no memory restrictions like Pocket PC devices. Some of the current TabletPC are fabulous, though still a little expensive. Nicest one I've seen so far is Electrovaya Scribbler 2010 Tablet PC http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/hardware/electrotab/ http://www.mobiletechreview.com/notebooks/electrovaya.htm Easy to see how these could be worth their weight in gold in the Medicine and elsewhere. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/tabletpc/default.mspx http://thetabletpc.net/ http://www.pencomputing.com/TabletPC/ --- Flash --- ....and yes Flash can now support all of the above now. MDM have just released 'Zinc' for PocketPC, as well finally their cross platform compiler for [desktop] Zinc applications [MacOSX, Windows] http://www.multidmedia.com/software/zinc/ The Zinc feature-set includes 600 script functions, freeing Flash from its very limited browser sandbox, and putting it much closer Rebol http://www.multidmedia.com/software/zinc/#03 http://www.multidmedia.com/software/zinc/pocketpc/ Meanwhile Macromedia have just signed a deal with Nokia for 'FlashLite'. They are showing off this week at 3GSM http://macromedia.com/devnet/devices/?promoid=home_dev_3gsm_021405 At first glance FlashLite sounds great, until one learns that it is really just Flash 4 [c.1999 or early 2000] ! It works but the old programming syntax sucks so this is a horrible step back for programmers now used to FlashMX and Actionscript 2.0 Fyi, the 'standard' Flash player now running almost everywhere on the web is version 7. What this all says to me is that when it comes to _GUI development environments_, the memory footprint and graphics performance on phones and some handhelds is still lagging years nearly 5 behind the available tool kits. The Sharp Zaurus runs Linux and is a rare exception, but costs $1000. http://www.sharpusa.com/products/TypeLanding/0,1056,116,00.html PocketPC land Microsfots other Mobile versions strongly leverage .NET in slightly modified form . http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/pocketpc/default.mspx Can anyone tell me how/if Rebol/View/Command could leverage this easily or not? thanks, Jason

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