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Rebol and BeOS

 [1/24] from: fjouen:free at: 4-Dec-2002 10:21


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Is there anybody who can explain me why Rebol View seems to be buggy under BeOS ? Thaks a lot Fran=E7ois Jouen Laboratoire de Psychobiologie du D=E9veloppement 41 rue Gay-Lussac F-75005 Paris Tel: 33 (0) 1 44 10 78 83 -- Binary/unsupported file stripped by Listar -- -- Type: image/jpeg -- File: image001.jpg

 [2/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 7:57


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, François Jouen wrote:
> Is there anybody who can explain me why Rebol View seems to be buggy > under BeOS ?
Yes, I can. It is beacuse it *IS* buggy under BeOS. I even offered myself to help with the BeOS port and was told that I would be contacted when they got back to that again. It looks being cross-platform is not a top priority anymore, which is sad. -Bruno

 [3/24] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 4-Dec-2002 11:58


Bruno G. Albuquerque wrote:
>On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, François Jouen wrote: >>Is there anybody who can explain me why Rebol View seems to be buggy
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
>they got back to that again. It looks being cross-platform is not a top >priority anymore, which is sad.
Yes, apparently RT is low on man-power resources. OTOH - let's just be realistic - I would choose following priorities: - Windows - MacOSx - Linux - Pocket PC CPU platforms - SymbianOS - hosting in JAVA, Tao Intent (it would bring Rebol to other platforms and devices automatically ...) - other mobile and upcoming devices (consoles, TVs ...) - other platforms in no respective order, but maybe even then embedded system ones - QNX, MorphOS, AmigaOS, BeOS clones ... - Other Unix like OSes, e.g. Solaris, BSD ... -pekr-

 [4/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 10:51


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Petr Krenzelok wrote:
> >>Is there anybody who can explain me why Rebol View seems to be buggy > >>under BeOS ?
<<quoted lines omitted: 16>>
> system ones - QNX, MorphOS, AmigaOS, BeOS clones ... > - Other Unix like OSes, e.g. Solaris, BSD ...
I see your point and I probably unerstand the lack of resources from RT, but I actually helped to help them for free under an NDA or something like that. I love Rebol and the only reason I do not use it that much is that I use BeOS ate home and at work so I end up having to boot to Windows to do Rebol stuff and I really do not like that. Well... I guess I will have to wiat and see. -Bruno

 [5/24] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 4-Dec-2002 14:30


Bruno G. Albuquerque wrote:
>On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Petr Krenzelok wrote: >>>>Is there anybody who can explain me why Rebol View seems to be buggy
<<quoted lines omitted: 29>>
>Rebol stuff and I really do not like that. >Well... I guess I will have to wiat and see.
Any chance to get Win emulator or Linux emulator to simply use e.g. linux executable under BeOS? -pekr-

 [6/24] from: nitsch-lists:netcologne at: 4-Dec-2002 15:02


Petr Krenzelok wrote:

 [7/24] from: lennart:nylen:biz at: 4-Dec-2002 15:18


2002-12-04 15:02:02, Volker Nitsch <[nitsch-lists--netcologne--de]> wrote:
>adding a Linux-box and using it with xwindows remote?
Not quite practical when you're using a "platform agnostic" language, eh? Obviously RT is too small a company to properly maintain all ports so surely they must be able to make good use of all REBOLs out there. Ah, maybe after the SDK is launched and X-Mas is over. /Lennart Fridén ([lennart--nylen--biz]) The World is not sane so why should I be?

 [8/24] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 4-Dec-2002 11:00


Hi Bruno, BGA> It looks being cross-platform is not a top priority anymore, which is sad. Hmmm. Didn't Be sell out to Palm? If I were RT, I don't know how much effort I'd put into supporting an OS in the position BeOS is in (even with the open source efforts behind cloning it). I know that doesn't help those of you that use it, but I can see why they're not putting time into it. -- Gregg

 [9/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 16:27


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Gregg Irwin wrote:
> BGA> It looks being cross-platform is not a top priority anymore, which is sad. > > Hmmm. Didn't Be sell out to Palm? If I were RT, I don't know how much > effort I'd put into supporting an OS in the position BeOS is in (even > with the open source efforts behind cloning it). I know that doesn't > help those of you that use it, but I can see why they're not putting > time into it.
Wait. They support the AmigaOS! :) And they did that even before all the A1 stuff, AFAIK. Also, yes, Be did sell its assets to Palm, but it is also true that YellowTab (http://www.yellowtab.com) licensed the source-code from Palm and will be releasing Zeta (BeOS R6) in January of February. Not to mention the OSS projects cloning it (I am the OpenBFS Team Lead for the OpenBeOS project). Anyway, I repeat: I know (or I think that I know) what the problem is with the BeOS version and I offered to help for free. That's not the kind of stuff you would count as expenses on your budget. :P :) -Bruno

 [10/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 16:31


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, [windows-1252] Lennart Fridén wrote:
> >adding a Linux-box and using it with xwindows remote? > > Not quite practical when you're using a "platform agnostic" language, > eh? Obviously RT is too small a company to properly maintain all ports > so surely they must be able to make good use of all REBOLs out there. > Ah, maybe after the SDK is launched and X-Mas is over.
I am counting on that. -Bruno

 [11/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 16:30


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Petr Krenzelok wrote:
> Any chance to get Win emulator or Linux emulator to simply use e.g. > linux executable under BeOS?
Too much work. I end up using Perl and PHP for all the web stuff I have to develop as they're available on the platform I work on and all other platforms I have to support. Still, I have to say Rebol is *WAY* better for the stuff I do than any of the 2 languages I mentioned, but being "better", by itself, is not really enough. -Bruno

 [12/24] from: lennart:nylen:biz at: 4-Dec-2002 19:38


2002-12-04 19:27:19, "Bruno G. Albuquerque" <[bga--bug-br--org--br]> wrote:
>Wait. They support the AmigaOS! :) And they did that even before all >the A1 stuff, AFAIK.
You do know that Carl Sassenrath wrote the AmigaOS kernel, right? I don't think he'll drop the Amiga port and I truely hope that he'll decide to make a OS4.0 native PPC port as soon as OS4.0 is out.
>Anyway, I repeat: I know (or I think that I know) what the problem is >with the BeOS version and I offered to help for free. That's not the >kind of stuff you would count as expenses on your budget. :P :)
I guess the blokes over at RT are too busy with the SDK to think about showing their sources to a third party to get BeOS support. Try again after X-Mas when things should be a bit more calm. /Lennart Fridén ([lennart--nylen--biz]) The World is not sane so why should I be?

 [13/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 16:48


On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, [windows-1252] Lennart Fridén wrote:
> >Wait. They support the AmigaOS! :) And they did that even before all > >the A1 stuff, AFAIK. > > You do know that Carl Sassenrath wrote the AmigaOS kernel, right? I > don't think he'll drop the Amiga port and I truely hope that he'll > decide to make a OS4.0 native PPC port as soon as OS4.0 is out.
Yes, I do. My point was that the "dead platform" thing did not make any sense (even if you ignore that BeOS is not really dead).
> >Anyway, I repeat: I know (or I think that I know) what the problem is > >with the BeOS version and I offered to help for free. That's not the > >kind of stuff you would count as expenses on your budget. :P :) > > I guess the blokes over at RT are too busy with the SDK to think about > showing their sources to a third party to get BeOS support.
I asked it almost one year ago. Never asked again (as I was in waiting mode). The onl reason I am saying this now (and I am not even complaining) is that the subject came up. Also, I would not need access to their entire source code. Only the rendering engine and the network layer (actually, I would need to check only the BeOS specific bits of that code).
> Try again after X-Mas when things should be a bit more calm.
I hope so. -Bruno

 [14/24] from: dada:gecko:verizon at: 4-Dec-2002 13:53


I think it makes sense that if Rebol is going to compete with other languages, then it should be on the systems that the other languages are on, and maybe a couple of others. I have to agree, while Be is cool, it's not ... ahmmm ... rampant? So, MacOSX, Windows, *nix, BSD. Palm is cool if we can get it. sd Gregg Irwin wrote:

 [15/24] from: lennart:nylen:biz at: 4-Dec-2002 20:11


2002-12-04 19:53:42, Sabin Densmore <[dada--gecko--verizon--net]> wrote:
>I think it makes sense that if Rebol is going to compete with other >languages, then it should be on the systems that the other languages >are on, and maybe a couple of others.
On the other hand, REBOL is an underdog as so are most platforms. Therefore users of alternative platforms might be more inclined to try an alternative language. I'd hate to miss out on an AmigaOS 4.0 port (and I guess that if BeOS was/is continued in some form - be it OpenBeOS or not - it should have an REBOL port as well).
>I have to agree, while Be is cool, it's not ... ahmmm ... rampant? > >So, MacOSX, Windows, *nix, BSD. Palm is cool if we can get it.
Don't hold your breath for a Palm port, at least not to the current PalmOS. I believe it had something to do with REBOL's footprint being too big. /Lennart Fridén ([lennart--nylen--biz]) The World is not sane so why should I be?

 [16/24] from: dada:gecko:verizon at: 4-Dec-2002 15:01


> REBOL is an underdog as so are most platforms. > Therefore users of alternative platforms might be more inclined to try > an alternative language. I'd hate to miss out on an AmigaOS 4.0 port > (and I guess that if BeOS was/is continued in some form - be it > OpenBeOS or not - it should have an REBOL port as well).
Good point.
> >I have to agree, while Be is cool, it's not ... ahmmm ... rampant? > > > >So, MacOSX, Windows, *nix, BSD. Palm is cool if we can get it. > > Don't hold your breath for a Palm port, at least not to the current > PalmOS. I believe it had something to do with REBOL's footprint being > too big.
Yeah, I remember reading something about that. Windows CE is in, but Palm is kind of out. Maybe Linux for Handhelds? :) sd

 [17/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 18:11


On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 15:01:02 -0500, Sabin Densmore < [dada--gecko--verizon--net]> wrote:
> > Don't hold your breath for a Palm port, at least not to the current > > PalmOS. I believe it had something to do with REBOL's footprint > > being > > too big. > > Yeah, I remember reading something about that. Windows CE is in, but > Palm is kind of out. Maybe Linux for Handhelds=3F :)
Considering what PalmOS 6 will be running, I would guess Rebol's footprint will actually be ok for it. -Bruno

 [18/24] from: lennart:nylen:biz at: 4-Dec-2002 21:15


2002-12-04 21:01:02, Sabin Densmore <[dada--gecko--verizon--net]> wrote:
>> Don't hold your breath for a Palm port, at least not to the current >> PalmOS. I believe it had something to do with REBOL's footprint >> being too big. > >Yeah, I remember reading something about that. Windows CE is in, but >Palm is kind of out. Maybe Linux for Handhelds? :)
Can't see why you shouldn't be able to run REBOL on e.g. a Sharp Zaurus already. :-) Cheers! /Lennart Fridén ([lennart--nylen--biz]) The World is not sane so why should I be?

 [19/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 4-Dec-2002 21:44


On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:53:42 -0500, Sabin Densmore (Sabin Densmore < [dada--gecko--verizon--net]>) said:
> I have to agree, while Be is cool, it's not ... ahmmm ... rampant=3F
That's just because you never really used it. :) -Bruno -- Fortune Cookie Says: It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either. -- Mark Twain

 [20/24] from: cyphre:seznam:cz at: 5-Dec-2002 15:44


Hi Bruno, I don't want to start OS flamewars here ;-) but I think BeOS is really cool system(even I'm currently using WinXP at work , AmigaOS and Win2k at home because of my insufficient hardware config). It is far more better and inovative than eye-candy but inconsistent and buggy OSX. I'm almost everyday spending some time working on MAC (either classic OS9(what a pain!) or OSX) in my current job and I'll never understand Apple's philosophy how they do things. Sorry, all mac and OSX lovers here but I can't help myself ;-). How those machines with such system could have survived more than great Amiga with their AmigaOS? :-) But now seriously ;-)...It is realy good to hear such great news about YellowTab's resurrection of BeOS aka upcomming ZETA. Thanks for the info! regards, Cyphre ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruno G. Albuquerque" <[bga--bug-br--org--br]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2002 2:44 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Rebol and BeOS On Wed, 04 Dec 2002 13:53:42 -0500, Sabin Densmore (Sabin Densmore < [dada--gecko--verizon--net]>) said:
> I have to agree, while Be is cool, it's not ... ahmmm ... rampant?
That's just because you never really used it. :) -Bruno -- Fortune Cookie Says: It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either. -- Mark Twain

 [21/24] from: carl:s:rebol at: 5-Dec-2002 9:35


Just a quick note on BeOS. The single biggest problem we have with better support for BeOS is its network API. The Be team did great things with multimedia, but they punted on a few areas of TCP/IP. We'd like to encourage the new BeOS systems team to consider improving in this area. If you need a detailed list, perhaps Holger could give you some input. Our best wishes to you on BeOS... -Carl At 03:44 PM 12/5/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi Bruno, >I don't want to start OS flamewars here ;-) but I think BeOS is really cool
<<quoted lines omitted: 34>>
>[rebol-request--rebol--com] with "unsubscribe" in the >subject, without the quotes.
-Carl Carl Sassenrath Founder & Chairman REBOL Technologies www.rebol.com

 [22/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 5-Dec-2002 15:58


On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Carl at REBOL wrote:
> Just a quick note on BeOS. > > The single biggest problem we have with better support for BeOS is its > network API.
Yes. The BeOS R5 network stack (called net_server) is... How could I say that... Terrible (and that's an understatement). This is not really a problem anymore as people using BeOS are mostly running BONE (BeOS Networking Environment) that is a high performance network stack (in the same league as the BSD and Linux ones). For once, it is almost 100% BSD interface (including "sockets == fds" and raw sockets). Zeta, the BeOS version I mentioned, will come with BONE out-of-the-box.
> The Be team did great things with multimedia, but they punted on a few areas > of TCP/IP. We'd like to encourage the new BeOS systems team to consider > improving in this area.
We did, we are, we will. :)
> If you need a detailed list, perhaps Holger could give you some input.
Sure. If he is interested, I can get him BONE so you guys could compile REBOL with it and see how it works. In fact, you will probably be able to just use your Linux network code directly with one or 2 changes here and there.
> Our best wishes to you on BeOS...
Thanks. And best wishes with Rebol. It sure rocks. -Bruno

 [23/24] from: carl:s:rebol at: 5-Dec-2002 14:30


Thanks, that's great news on BONE (BSD TCP stack for BeOS). Let us know when we can give it a try. -Carl At 03:58 PM 12/5/02 -0200, you wrote:

 [24/24] from: bga:bug-br at: 5-Dec-2002 20:47


On Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:30:22 -0800, Carl at REBOL (Carl at REBOL < [carl--s--rebol--com]>) said:
> Thanks, that's great news on BONE (BSD TCP stack for BeOS). > Let us know when we can give it a try.
Well, you can try it now. Just sent it attached to another email. Thanks. -Bruno -- Fortune Cookie Says: Don't let your mind wander -- it's too little to be let out alone.

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