REBOL with Java (FREEBELL)

[1/13] from: fsievert:uos at: 20-Feb-2001 12:15

Hi! I am working on a REB*L complatible interpreter for Java. You can try a Prototype at http://proton.cl-ki.uni-osnabrueck.de/Freebell/ I has no speed optimizations, is not ready and only for fun at the moment. CU, Frank On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, David Vydra wrote:

[2/13] from: steve:shireman:semaxwireless at: 20-Feb-2001 6:20

Cute--more than cute, Fun, as you say, actually...didn't break it yet...ankle Frank Sievertsen wrote:

[3/13] from: jeff:rebol at: 20-Feb-2001 5:50

Howdy, Frank:

> I am working on a REB*L complatible interpreter for > Java. You can try a Prototype at > > http://proton.cl-ki.uni-osnabrueck.de/Freebell/ > > I has no speed optimizations, is not ready and only for fun > at the moment.

Awesome!! Seems like PRINT SYSTEM/WORDS locked it up when I tried. That's really going all out! :-) -jeff

[4/13] from: robbo1mark:aol at: 20-Feb-2001 14:41

JEFF, How come is FREEBEL the JAVA REBOL interpreter really cool, which it indeed is, but OSCAR gets jumped upon? Iam confused, are alternative REBOL implementations a good or bad thing? Mark Dickson

[5/13] from: jeff:rebol at: 20-Feb-2001 12:07

Mark: I never criticized the OSCAR project. I only tried to point out what appeared to me as rather obnoxious behavior in your messages to the list (proselytizing rather than contributing as others do). Is everything always so cloak and dagger, black and white for you? If you love REBOL why do you seem particularly fond of painting us as the Evil Empire that you are valiantly resisting? You seemed to paint us as Iron Curtain Soviets the other day. Means and ends are entirely separate issues. I can think your objectives are swell but dislike the manner in which you go about working towards your objectives. If you have a difficult time seeing the distinction between means and ends, it doesn't do your sense of ethics much credit. Lighten up! Cheers!! -jeff

[6/13] from: petr::krenzelok::trz::cz at: 20-Feb-2001 21:42

----- Original Message ----- From: <[Robbo1Mark--aol--com]> To: <[rebol-list--rebol--com]> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 8:41 PM Subject: [REBOL] Re: REBOL with Java (FREEBELL)

> JEFF, > > How come is FREEBEL the JAVA REBOL interpreter really cool, > > which it indeed is, but OSCAR gets jumped upon? > > Iam confused, are alternative REBOL implementations a good or bad thing?

Definitely a good thing? I think discussion regarding OSCAR showed us something. One thing is RT wanting to cover many areas of development, second thing is ppl are free to have their own opinion. I somehow was not too comfort with Holger's answer, as it seemed to me a little bit offensive. The truth is - we were promised to get better system than Amiga is. Let me state that in my opinion Rebol is pretty cool! Using VID, dialects, Rebol's simplicity makes me really crazy about it, and sometimes I even think I will loose my sanity :-) On the other hand we meet some "problems" on several fronts. Speed of Rebol in some areas of application, speed of overall technology development itself. But how to solve it? RT has to make some money, or there will be no Rebol at all. Bitter reality for us all. Maybe I was too much ranting about Rebol situation just because the current state of things is not exactly what such cool technology as Rebol surely is deserves. So does Java Rebol help us? Hmm, having Rebol in Java means you need some 10MB or so Java distribution to run 300kb Rebol? Well, it sounds like useless product to me. But there is also another point of view. RT released browser plug-in. My argument was, that no plug-in is gonna be publicly accepted, unless it is able to draw inside browser's screen area, dot! If someone would create /View for Java, programming interactive cool forms could be fun. You can bet that pretty much every important browser out there supports Java. Well, of course I am not sure if it is technically possible. What is my opinion on getting Rebol into public faster? If we can't have real component system to provide us with better per-component pricing currently, there is still something what can be done to help the situation: - RT could free /Shell and /Library components (as for /library - at least for non-commercial purposes initially). It would provide community of users with features found in another free scripting languages, while allowing ppl to start much deeper integration of Rebol into their own solutions. It could be announced, articles posted on several places, and maybe Rebol would gain much more acceptance by such step than RT dares to admit :-) - re-release of /Apache, powered by /Library components - for free. RT could provide us with library wrappers for various databases, as currently showed by Jeff. Why would ppl buy it? Because saving of the time, becase RT would provide us technical support? There is also "modules" question. While we can have context isolated using objects, IIRC there was some talk about faster /Apache, by using proposed rebol modules support, because interpreter would not have to boot? Then we should provide rebol based solution to benchmark sites, to show them, why ppl should start to consider Rebol. We LOST currently many ppl. I know personally 3 folks who looked at Rebol but stayed with PHP.Each new Rebol powered server means bunch of scripts, custom and possibly SHARED solutions and knowledge ... kind of a intelectual property, but very valuable .... - Tom, Dan or Carl could outline a little bit some kind of a roadmap to us, or even to their website, to show ppl there is some long-time strategy ... Well, I hope my comments are taken just as comments, nothing more ... :-) Cheers, -pekr-

[7/13] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Feb-2001 11:02

On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:41:14 EST [Robbo1Mark--aol--com] wrote:

> How come is FREEBEL the JAVA REBOL interpreter really > cool, > > which it indeed is, but OSCAR gets jumped upon?

My POV is that OSCAR is potentially taking developers away from RT, whereas FREEBEL is not. Developers are a software company's life blood. -- Graham Chiu

[8/13] from: robbo1mark:aol at: 20-Feb-2001 17:42

JEFF, I don't see you as the EVIL EMPIRE I don't understand how Iam continually attributed with having dissed REBOL or are trying to plot anybodies downfall I've never said things are black & white my posts have been aimed at other list members merely asking them to "CONSIDER" how they see REBOL developing. Is debate not contribution as well? MarK Dickson

[9/13] from: jeff:rebol at: 20-Feb-2001 15:52

Howdy Mark: I guess this quip you made the other day: "Or is it a REBOL equivalent of Pravda, where only the party line is presented and applauded?" sort of made me think you were equating us with the former Soviet Union (Pravda was the notoriously state controlled newspaper, of course) which seemed to me to be saying we're the Evil Empire. I think a plain reading of that statement by your average person would agree with my interpretation. Mister, I can only take you by the words that come from the various sides of your mouth. ;-) In either case, I'm not trying to enter a debate, far from it, I'm trying to avoid one. I want write code, work on scripts, help people with developer issues, work towards the future of REBOL, that kind of thing. But I am a little confused, as I was under the impression that you acknowledged and apologized for being a pushy religious person the other day and wanted to turn over a new leaf, but now you tell me your contributions will be debate. Well, to each their own, but you'll have to forgive me, but I've got no spare cycles to engage in protracted controversy! (-: There's just too much to do! Cheers, best of luck with your project, and do be good to yourself! --Jeff

[10/13] from: alanwall:sonic at: 20-Feb-2001 17:10

Hello [jeff--rebol--net] On 20-Feb-01, [jeff--rebol--net] wrote:

> Howdy Mark: > I guess this quip you made the other day: "Or is it a REBOL

<<quoted lines omitted: 20>>

> yourself! > --Jeff

End of topic PLEASE!Take off line if need be.We have fun work to do :) Regards -- You cannot do wrong without suffering wrong. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson JMS Trustee http://www.jms.org HP=http://www.sonic.net/~alanwall/ First computer solar powered vic-20 AmigaQNX-notAmigaNG=no good computers for people not suits sent via Yam ver2.2 on AmigaForever verIV Be a Rebel get Rebol@ rebol.com UIN#=9391028

[11/13] from: robbo1mark:aol at: 21-Feb-2001 3:06

JEFF / HOLGER / EVERYBODY I agree that this is tiresome and should finish here. Your point of view, Iam a pushy "religious" person, with dubious ethics / tact, speaking with a forked tongue and who is trying to utilise & manipulate the "REBOL LIST" to further my own ends and lead my "HOLY CRUSADE" to victory over the "EVIL EMPIRE". My point of View, I thought you RT guys only scanned over this list and kept in touch with general threads of REBOL discussion, providing specific technical assistance when required. NONE of my posts or points I wished to make were intended for discussion or debate with RT folks but rather for the attention of the general REBOL community, or at least until Holger decided to Put the boot in and Jeff backed this up by repeatedly questioning my integrity and casting the impression that I've actually done something wrong, I thought I had only voiced my opinions, however wrong they may be! I'll gladly drop this if you guys will. Mark Dickson

[12/13] from: jeff:rebol at: 21-Feb-2001 11:26

Mark Dickson:

> I'll gladly drop this if you guys will.

Yes, comrade! :-) Das vidanya, Jeff

[13/13] from: robbo1mark:aol at: 21-Feb-2001 15:58

Jeff / Holger / Everybody Love, peace & respect! respect our differences, respect each other, Iam sure we share more of our goals for REBOL than we differ. best wishes guys. Mark Dickson

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