REBOL might be easy, but not with this documentation

I'm reporting my very early experiences as a REBOL programmer - although I have read about the progress with the language several years, I just hours ago started to program my first scripts. The problem with programming REBOL is that the documentation lacks. It is well written sort of and I guess everything is there, BUT: it clearly shows that someone too familiar with the language has written it. Let's take the problem I solved just minutes ago as example: I wanted to have a window with no borders and no title. I had no idea what to do. I looked at quite many documents, such as the beginner's guide to REBOL/View, but no help. After some time I tried the command-line help (I didn't read about command line help anywhere, I just tried it because many systems have such thing). Ok, I had already knowledge about view-command, so I instantly saw that I had to use refinements . So I tried: "view/options [no-title no-border] layout[...". After some more time I finally found an example by using altavista search +view/options +rebol from codeconscious.com, which showed that "[no-title no-border]" must come after the layout block. Ok, so I didn't read the manuals very well before starting to program - but how many does? I understand that REBOL Technologies might not have huge resources to put on writing the documentation. But how about adding a possibility to send short scripts with errors to rebol.com and using them as a material for producing a better error parser (the current one isn't very good, you admit?)? I guess my personal problems will go away with the books I have ordered, but not all of the millions of programmers you are trying to lure to use REBOL will buy a book... 8) Cheers, Mikko Mäkelä

On 18-Oct-01, Mikko "Mäkelä wrote:

> I'm reporting my very early experiences as a REBOL > programmer - although I have read about the progress > guess everything is there, BUT: it clearly shows that > someone too familiar with the language has written it.

> Let's take the problem I solved just minutes ago as > example: I wanted to have a window with no borders and > Ok, so I didn't read the manuals very well before > starting to program - but how many does?

> I understand > that REBOL Technologies might not have huge resources > programmers you are trying to lure to use REBOL will > buy a book... 8)

> Cheers, > Mikko Mäkelä

I downloaded a script from REBOL.org and I think one was zipped into the REBOL -that sends error report via a pop up window to mail it directly. I will look for the file. John fAt 03:14 AM 10/18/2001 -0700, you wrote:

Hi Mikko, I've only been REBOLing for a few months, so I'm in sort of the same position you are. << The problem with programming REBOL is that the documentation lacks. It is well written sort of and I guess everything is there, BUT: it clearly shows that someone too familiar with the language has written it. >> It's kind of an ironic situation. There's an embarassment of riches to be found in all the sample scripts that people have on their REB sites and in the library, but it's difficult to find what you want and extract it. Also, as a beginner, it is not always clear *why* things are done or what the important details are. I often find myself extracting a bit of code and immediately breaking it because I didn't understand what all it was doing. It's not always clear if something is being done the way RT intended us to do things or if it's a workaround. OTOH, I've been able, as a beginnger, to accomplish things that no beginner has the right to do. :) I'm trying to keep track of things as I learn them, so please feel free to post here, or send me mail, when you come up with a question that you think newcomers will want answered. --Gregg

This is also in the FAQ at http://www.rebolforces.com/view-faq.html And of course using "? view" on the command line. But maybe the output of help isn't enough if you haven't read the basic /core manuals. Articles and documentation written from the beginners perspective are needed, feel free to contribute. (another article plug ;-) Cheers, Allen K Learn to crawl first, then walk ... core before view.