rebol plugins
[1/7] from: bry:itnisk at: 15-Sep-2003 15:01
Whatever happened to that rebol plugins thing, is that still going, like
to know as I have some ideas about it.
[2/7] from: bry:itnisk at: 18-Sep-2003 15:52
This http://www.reboltech.com/plugins.html given the eolas patent
http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5074799.html seems somewhat dicey. From
reading the news.com.com article it seems likely to me that what
Microsoft is going to do is to use an element behavior
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/author/behav
iors/overview/elementb_ovw.asp specifically the solution would seem to
be binary behaviors (always assuming that they can get W3 to go along,
but they're owned nowadays):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/workshop/browser/beha
viors/binbehaviors_node_entry.asp if we did that of course the rebol
script would have to be mingled into the html as namespaced markup, for
example
<reb:script>
....do something here....
</reb:script>
I seem to remember others discussing in the past the utility of
representing rebol in xml, which this would give us the possibility to
do.
[This makes me think of Rebol Server Pages, which after all are a
template language, a la asp, jsp etc. and the possibility of rsp having
its own namespaced, xml compliant syntax.
]
[3/7] from: antonr:iinet:au at: 19-Sep-2003 1:39
Interesting.
How portable is DHTML, do you know?
Is it an open standard, I mean?
Anton.
[4/7] from: antonr:iinet:au at: 19-Sep-2003 1:53
About DHTML:
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-243144.html?legacy=cnet
Dynamic HTML is a marketing term used by Microsoft and other software
companies to group various Web technologies and W3C
recommendations--including Cascading Style Sheets (CSS), scripting languages
such as JavaScript, and HTML
Hah! all this time, I thought DHTML was a separate language.
(It sort of is... an MS point-of-view language :)
Anton.
[5/7] from: bry:itnisk at: 26-Sep-2003 15:23
>Interesting.
>How portable is DHTML, do you know?
>Is it an open standard, I mean?
Sorry about the long time between replying.
DHTML is generally used to refer to the usage of several complementary
technologies, Html 4.0, CSS, and Javascript (ecmascript).
So while Microsoft might claim DHTML as theirs, the term is also used
for Dynamic (client-side) Html as used in Mozilla for example.
As a general rule these technologies are a lot of bother to try to make
work cross-browser. Hence the continuing reliance on server side
technologies.
The Microsoft dynamic behaviors are totally Microsoft specific, however
syntactically they share a similarity with xml namespaces which are
standardized.
An html document using inline svg interpreted via a dynamic behavior
will have a syntax as follows:
<html xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
<object id="AdobeSVG"
CLASSID="clsid:78156a80-c6a1-4bbf-8e6a-3cd390eeb4e2"
style="display:none;"/>
<?import namespace="svg" implementation="#AdobeSVG"?>
<head>
</head>
<body>
an svg graphic
<svg:svg xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" width="200px"
height="200px" viewBox="0 0 200 200">
<svg:circle cx="20" cy="20" r="10" fill="#cfc000;"/>
</svg:svg> </body></html>
the thing about this is that Mozilla understands xml namespaces and one
can write code for Mozilla that interprets a particular namespace, the
<?import there is syntactically the same as an xml processing
instruction (an instruction passed up to the processing application) as
such it is ignored by browsers that don't understand the particular
instruction.
So although there would have to be an implementation of the interpreter
for various browsers supported, the markup syntax used in these various
browsers shouldn't cause any problem.
The main thing is that the earlier Rebol plugin is definitely not good
under the eolas patent, and that it seems to me that integration with
the browser is an area that in the case of Windows leads to closer
integration with the system.
[6/7] from: ptretter:charter at: 26-Sep-2003 15:26
Hmm... I wonder since xml seems to be supported everywhere with these
browsers then why can't an rebol plugin be made that gets launched via xml?
Paul Tretter
[7/7] from: bry:itnisk at: 27-Sep-2003 17:02
well an xml file in Internet Explorer has
its intrinsic handling done via an wd-xsl
file inside of the msxml.dll as a resource.
This generates a dynamic html page which
shows the treeview you get when you double
click and open an xml file, an xml file in
mozilla has not intrinsic display on it.
There is really no way to associate a plugin
with xml, there is however ways to associate
plugins with html and xhtml as I discussed
in the earlier mail.
The documents could be xhtml and still work
with the plugin, the plugin architecture
however should most probably not be that
which it was before, as that falls under the
eolas patent, I think the dynamic behaviors
model which I pointed out, which is of
course IE specific but of which a similar
solution can be implemented for Mozilla,
does not seem to me to fall under the eolas
patent; however I am not 100% certain about
that since it still requires a reference to
an external object on the page to interpret
the inline markup.
At any rate as there has been discussion on
list before about the following things:
1. extending Rebol to interact with browsers
and OS
2. serializing rebol scripts to some xml
dialect, so that they could be more easily
consumed as data in other environments.
3. The current thread on c# in which I point
to the CodeDom, I am familiar with some work
that has allowed for generation of an xml
dialect of the CodeDom which can be compiled
to various .Net languages; c#, vb.net, J#,
unfortunately jscript.net seems to have
problems with the format.
> Hmm... I wonder since xml seems to be
supported everywhere with these
> browsers then why can't an rebol plugin be
made that gets launched via xml?
> Paul Tretter
> ----- Original Message -----
<<quoted lines omitted: 12>>
> >
> > Sorry about the long time between
replying.
> >
> > DHTML is generally used to refer to the
usage of several complementary
> > technologies, Html 4.0, CSS, and
Javascript (ecmascript).
> >
> > So while Microsoft might claim DHTML as
theirs, the term is also used
> > for Dynamic (client-side) Html as used
in Mozilla for example.
> >
> > As a general rule these technologies are
a lot of bother to try to make
> > work cross-browser. Hence the continuing
reliance on server side
> > technologies.
> >
> > The Microsoft dynamic behaviors are
totally Microsoft specific, however
> > syntactically they share a similarity
with xml namespaces which are
> > standardized.
> >
> > An html document using inline svg
interpreted via a dynamic behavior
> > will have a syntax as follows:
> >
> > <html
xmlns:svg="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
> > <object id="AdobeSVG"
> > CLASSID="clsid:78156a80-c6a1-4bbf-8e6a-
3cd390eeb4e2"
> > style="display:none;"/>
> > <?import namespace="svg"
implementation="#AdobeSVG"?>
> > <head>
> > </head>
> > <body>
> > an svg graphic
> > <svg:svg
xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"
width="200px"
Notes
- Quoted lines have been omitted from some messages.
View the message alone to see the lines that have been omitted