Problem Solving (was: Autogenerating TOC)
[1/18] from: jelinem1::nationwide::com at: 17-Nov-2000 10:08
In the usually simple tasks I give to REBOL, I've found that more often
than not it helps to start writing the code backwards - that is, write the
output
function first, the one that will actually write the HTML pages.
Forget about the mechanics of reading in the directories and filenames, and
think instead of the most convenient form (ie data structures) you would
like the information when you create the HTML pages. Make this a
parameter(s) to the output function. THEN your main function will be about
reading in the data and populating this desired data structure.
In other words, I've found it helpful to break a simple task (such as
yours) into two stages: reading the data into a REBOL structure, then
writing the data out from this structure. I don't even try to combine these
two steps anymore. It's faster just to separate these two things from the
beginning.
- Michael Jelinek
[2/18] from: cyphre::volny::cz at: 18-Apr-2001 12:24
/View browser plugin
Carl,
I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View
browser plugin. I think it should be next step(after releasing of /View) how
to speed-up the rebolution. Consider the possibility to run /View script in
brwoser's window...this will give Rebol another dimension (and ofcourse
atract lots of "browsing" people). Remember the way how MACROMEDIA FLASH
became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point of
/view
Cyphre
[3/18] from: chris:langreiter at: 18-Apr-2001 12:55
I think a plug-in is not an option.
It is a necessity.
Trojan horse, sort of ;-)
Best regards,
Chris
[4/18] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 18-Apr-2001 13:49
Richard Smolak wrote:
> Carl,
> I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point of
> /view
Cyphre, you know me, man, right? :-) browser plug-in being able to draw inside
of browser's window was suggested long time ago already. It was not a priority
though, as it will not generate RT any money.
I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol being one
of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it is
maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the world
:-)
-pekr-
[5/18] from: laplace:worldnet at: 18-Apr-2001 14:16
Java applet did not either generate revenue but thanks to a free kit,
attracted many people, many books, and now there is a true architecture
around JEE standard with server products like BEA's one which sells for
10000$ and commerce server for 50000$. I think it's really urgent to do that
and also to be more easily connected to database. As long as Database was
not included as standard in Visual Basic until version 3, Visual Basic was
not looked at although there was a library available from 3rd parties .
[6/18] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 18-Apr-2001 8:08
> Richard Smolak wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View
> > browser plugin. I think it should be next step(after releasing of /View)
how
> > to speed-up the rebolution. Consider the possibility to run /View script
in
> > brwoser's window...this will give Rebol another dimension (and ofcourse
> > atract lots of "browsing" people). Remember the way how MACROMEDIA FLASH
> > became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's)
point of
> > /view
> >
From: "Petr Krenzelok"
> Cyphre, you know me, man, right? :-) browser plug-in being able to draw
inside
> of browser's window was suggested long time ago already. It was not a
priority
> though, as it will not generate RT any money.
>
> I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol
being one
> of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it
is
> maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the
world
> :-)
>
> -pekr-
Not stupid at all, of course. I also believe that this *is* the way people
are, and is one of the reasons that RT will have such a battle in gaining
mindshare. As in a game of chess, the strategic use of resources is the
name of the game: 1) focus on current technologies and paradigms and build
to the future, or 2) leap frog the current technologies and paradigms and
create the future now. What is the right answer?
As a greedy consumer, I want it all, I want it now, and I want it free! But
that is not the way it really works. Everything comes at a price. I truly
wish RT the best of luck in this game of strategy. I'm glad I'm not having
to make the hard descisions!
Regards to all contributors,
--Scott Jones
[7/18] from: ryan:christiansen:intellisol at: 18-Apr-2001 8:21
pekr wrote...
I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol being
one
of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it is
maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the
world
:-)
Pekr-
I can't agree more. The only way REBOL can thrive outside of the browser is
if it offers a solution so spectacular that there simply isn't any other
solution. I hope I'm wrong.
Ryan C. Christiansen
Web Developer
Intellisol International
4733 Amber Valley Parkway
Fargo, ND 58104
701-235-3390 ext. 6671
FAX: 701-235-9940
http://www.intellisol.com
Global Leader in People Performance Software
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[8/18] from: brett:codeconscious at: 19-Apr-2001 0:29
> I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol
being one
> of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it
is
> maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the
world
> :-)
>
> -pekr-
I guess having Rebol running inside a browser would be nice, but really I
don't think it is such a big deal. In fact maybe it is better that people
initially see Rebol outside the browser. Putting it inside is like lining
the troops up to face each other and just keep shooting and slashing till
everyone is down - that type of war went out long time ago. Outside the
browser, Rebol can round the side and enter at the weakest point like Linux
is doing and pcs did to mainframes. After a while everyone realises that
they are using Rebol as the gateway to their information instead of a
browser and wondered when that happened...
Brett.
[9/18] from: chris:ross-gill at: 18-Apr-2001 10:43
Hi Richard,
> I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing
> the /View browser plugin. I think it should be next step (after
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point
> of /view
I personally don't think /View layouts suit the browser environment. I
do think /View is capable of creating rich and varied interfaces for
many different applications without the need of being stuck inside a web
page. Also, I think the plug-in would be more platform specific than
/View intends to be - not sure about that one.
/View will grow if:
Companies adopt it for whatever.
or
The rest of us (especially we, the early users) create compelling
content and encourage casual 'browsing people' to download it so they
can marvel at how wonderful, fast and interactive it all is. There are
many areas in which /View can be used to produce the 'killer app'.
On one level, though, browser integration is important. If I type a REB
address - such as http://www.ross-gill.com/arran.r (me, plugging? no
way) - I would wish the script to run, in the way a .pdf or a .doc would
open, only not inline. This way, I could hyperlink from a web page to a
/View script - this doesn't happen with the default Windows version with
IE.
- Chris
[10/18] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 18-Apr-2001 17:46
Hello Christopher,
> I personally don't think /View layouts suit the browser environment. I
Why not? I can imagine lots of /View faces(applets) built inside the html
code and running some background tasks(streaming...) on webpage page...
> do think /View is capable of creating rich and varied interfaces for
> many different applications without the need of being stuck inside a web
Yes, but why to hide such a good product and not show it to really big "WWW
audience"?
> page. Also, I think the plug-in would be more platform specific than
> /View intends to be - not sure about that one.
Sure, but I think its not so hard to recognize what system/platform is user
running and offer him proper plugin binary for download...
I'm not any expert in plugin field but I think it is probably similar work
to port rebol executable or rebol plugin for specific platform/system....or
maybe I'm wrong(send flames to me C programmers:)))?
> /View will grow if:
> Companies adopt it for whatever.
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> can marvel at how wonderful, fast and interactive it all is. There are
> many areas in which /View can be used to produce the 'killer app'.
I absolutely agree, I really love all that SMALL but GREAT rebol proggies. I
feel they should together create one big living entity but this need a lot
of work and human power beacuse TIME is our enemy in this strange
world...and we need to spread this technology as fast as we are able. So why
don't use such a great and fast highway as WEB is?
Finally, it is up to RT and instead of typing this stupid text I could make
a little /View script ;-)
Regards
Cyphre
[11/18] from: chris:langreiter at: 18-Apr-2001 18:04
> Why not? I can imagine lots of /View faces(applets) built inside the html
> code and running some background tasks(streaming...) on webpage page...
Absolutely. You know what KnowNow and all those other companies are about?
Keeping the connection to the server active, constantly downloading data
snippets. No more window snapshots. _A real window_ to some external world.
http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=80000008&doc_id=183
0018983
I'm not suggesting to jump on yet another bandwagon heading towards the
.wall - but REBOL is just ideal for applications like those. And of course
it should run in the browser.
Conquer!
-- Chris
[12/18] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 18-Apr-2001 18:18
Actually we can see how peoples have massively (and sadly) used java applets
in their webpages... providing the same ability for Rebol applets will give
the language a great popularity : it's safer, easyer, more stable, and
lighter. I would love to use REBOL applets inside webpages, and surely most
java users will follow us this way if RT open it.
The difficult side is that Rebol plugin will have to adress the browser DOM
and "talk with the javascript" to achieve interactivity with the rest of the
document. These are not trivial functions to add (have to deal with OS AND
browser software)... so i think RT would do better to end its work on the
actual product line and documentation, and then decide to do it or not.
My opinion is that RT have to provide such a plugin... but only after
completion of current tasks (releasing Core/pro etc.).
[13/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:41
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
[14/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:54
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
[15/18] from: drebol:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:30
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
[16/18] from: dmurrill:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:04
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
[17/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 13:24
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
[18/18] from: drebol:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 13:09
When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self.
Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging
Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy,
and the responder said basically i was babbling.
i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product
distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be
accepted for that class of people(www). I have the
xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages
easily.
I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a
parser/dialect for Rebol VID.
and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time.
But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning
(that cat) too soon.
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