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Problem Solving (was: Autogenerating TOC)

 [1/18] from: jelinem1::nationwide::com at: 17-Nov-2000 10:08


In the usually simple tasks I give to REBOL, I've found that more often than not it helps to start writing the code backwards - that is, write the output function first, the one that will actually write the HTML pages. Forget about the mechanics of reading in the directories and filenames, and think instead of the most convenient form (ie data structures) you would like the information when you create the HTML pages. Make this a parameter(s) to the output function. THEN your main function will be about reading in the data and populating this desired data structure. In other words, I've found it helpful to break a simple task (such as yours) into two stages: reading the data into a REBOL structure, then writing the data out from this structure. I don't even try to combine these two steps anymore. It's faster just to separate these two things from the beginning. - Michael Jelinek

 [2/18] from: cyphre::volny::cz at: 18-Apr-2001 12:24

/View browser plugin


Carl, I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View browser plugin. I think it should be next step(after releasing of /View) how to speed-up the rebolution. Consider the possibility to run /View script in brwoser's window...this will give Rebol another dimension (and ofcourse atract lots of "browsing" people). Remember the way how MACROMEDIA FLASH became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point of /view Cyphre

 [3/18] from: chris:langreiter at: 18-Apr-2001 12:55


I think a plug-in is not an option. It is a necessity. Trojan horse, sort of ;-) Best regards, Chris

 [4/18] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 18-Apr-2001 13:49


Richard Smolak wrote:
> Carl, > I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point of > /view
Cyphre, you know me, man, right? :-) browser plug-in being able to draw inside of browser's window was suggested long time ago already. It was not a priority though, as it will not generate RT any money. I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol being one of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it is maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the world :-) -pekr-

 [5/18] from: laplace:worldnet at: 18-Apr-2001 14:16


Java applet did not either generate revenue but thanks to a free kit, attracted many people, many books, and now there is a true architecture around JEE standard with server products like BEA's one which sells for 10000$ and commerce server for 50000$. I think it's really urgent to do that and also to be more easily connected to database. As long as Database was not included as standard in Visual Basic until version 3, Visual Basic was not looked at although there was a library available from 3rd parties .

 [6/18] from: gjones05:mail:orion at: 18-Apr-2001 8:08


> Richard Smolak wrote: > > Carl, > > > > I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing the /View > > browser plugin. I think it should be next step(after releasing of /View)
how
> > to speed-up the rebolution. Consider the possibility to run /View script
in
> > brwoser's window...this will give Rebol another dimension (and ofcourse > > atract lots of "browsing" people). Remember the way how MACROMEDIA FLASH > > became standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's)
point of
> > /view > >
From: "Petr Krenzelok"
> Cyphre, you know me, man, right? :-) browser plug-in being able to draw
inside
> of browser's window was suggested long time ago already. It was not a
priority
> though, as it will not generate RT any money. > > I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol
being one
> of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it
is
> maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the
world
> :-) > > -pekr-
Not stupid at all, of course. I also believe that this *is* the way people are, and is one of the reasons that RT will have such a battle in gaining mindshare. As in a game of chess, the strategic use of resources is the name of the game: 1) focus on current technologies and paradigms and build to the future, or 2) leap frog the current technologies and paradigms and create the future now. What is the right answer? As a greedy consumer, I want it all, I want it now, and I want it free! But that is not the way it really works. Everything comes at a price. I truly wish RT the best of luck in this game of strategy. I'm glad I'm not having to make the hard descisions! Regards to all contributors, --Scott Jones

 [7/18] from: ryan:christiansen:intellisol at: 18-Apr-2001 8:21


pekr wrote... I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol being one of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it is maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the world :-) Pekr- I can't agree more. The only way REBOL can thrive outside of the browser is if it offers a solution so spectacular that there simply isn't any other solution. I hope I'm wrong. Ryan C. Christiansen Web Developer Intellisol International 4733 Amber Valley Parkway Fargo, ND 58104 701-235-3390 ext. 6671 FAX: 701-235-9940 http://www.intellisol.com Global Leader in People Performance Software _____________________________________ Confidentiality Notice This message may contain privileged and confidential information. If you think, for any reason, that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in reliance on it, and we would ask you to notify us immediately by return email to [ryan--christiansen--intellisol--com]

 [8/18] from: brett:codeconscious at: 19-Apr-2001 0:29


> I too think it is a necessity, as I think ppl will never regard Rebol
being one
> of the options, if it lives outside their browser's window ... I know it
is
> maybe a stupid POV, but hey, it works that way sometimes - let's fool the
world
> :-) > > -pekr-
I guess having Rebol running inside a browser would be nice, but really I don't think it is such a big deal. In fact maybe it is better that people initially see Rebol outside the browser. Putting it inside is like lining the troops up to face each other and just keep shooting and slashing till everyone is down - that type of war went out long time ago. Outside the browser, Rebol can round the side and enter at the weakest point like Linux is doing and pcs did to mainframes. After a while everyone realises that they are using Rebol as the gateway to their information instead of a browser and wondered when that happened... Brett.

 [9/18] from: chris:ross-gill at: 18-Apr-2001 10:43


Hi Richard,
> I just want to ask you if you plan to continue with developing > the /View browser plugin. I think it should be next step (after
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> standard...Anyway I would like to know your(not only Carl's) point > of /view
I personally don't think /View layouts suit the browser environment. I do think /View is capable of creating rich and varied interfaces for many different applications without the need of being stuck inside a web page. Also, I think the plug-in would be more platform specific than /View intends to be - not sure about that one. /View will grow if: Companies adopt it for whatever. or The rest of us (especially we, the early users) create compelling content and encourage casual 'browsing people' to download it so they can marvel at how wonderful, fast and interactive it all is. There are many areas in which /View can be used to produce the 'killer app'. On one level, though, browser integration is important. If I type a REB address - such as http://www.ross-gill.com/arran.r (me, plugging? no way) - I would wish the script to run, in the way a .pdf or a .doc would open, only not inline. This way, I could hyperlink from a web page to a /View script - this doesn't happen with the default Windows version with IE. - Chris

 [10/18] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 18-Apr-2001 17:46


Hello Christopher,
> I personally don't think /View layouts suit the browser environment. I
Why not? I can imagine lots of /View faces(applets) built inside the html code and running some background tasks(streaming...) on webpage page...
> do think /View is capable of creating rich and varied interfaces for > many different applications without the need of being stuck inside a web
Yes, but why to hide such a good product and not show it to really big "WWW audience"?
> page. Also, I think the plug-in would be more platform specific than > /View intends to be - not sure about that one.
Sure, but I think its not so hard to recognize what system/platform is user running and offer him proper plugin binary for download... I'm not any expert in plugin field but I think it is probably similar work to port rebol executable or rebol plugin for specific platform/system....or maybe I'm wrong(send flames to me C programmers:)))?
> /View will grow if: > Companies adopt it for whatever.
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> can marvel at how wonderful, fast and interactive it all is. There are > many areas in which /View can be used to produce the 'killer app'.
I absolutely agree, I really love all that SMALL but GREAT rebol proggies. I feel they should together create one big living entity but this need a lot of work and human power beacuse TIME is our enemy in this strange world...and we need to spread this technology as fast as we are able. So why don't use such a great and fast highway as WEB is? Finally, it is up to RT and instead of typing this stupid text I could make a little /View script ;-) Regards Cyphre

 [11/18] from: chris:langreiter at: 18-Apr-2001 18:04


> Why not? I can imagine lots of /View faces(applets) built inside the html > code and running some background tasks(streaming...) on webpage page...
Absolutely. You know what KnowNow and all those other companies are about? Keeping the connection to the server active, constantly downloading data snippets. No more window snapshots. _A real window_ to some external world. http://www.redherring.com/index.asp?layout=story&channel=80000008&doc_id=183 0018983 I'm not suggesting to jump on yet another bandwagon heading towards the .wall - but REBOL is just ideal for applications like those. And of course it should run in the browser. Conquer! -- Chris

 [12/18] from: rgombert:essentiel at: 18-Apr-2001 18:18


Actually we can see how peoples have massively (and sadly) used java applets in their webpages... providing the same ability for Rebol applets will give the language a great popularity : it's safer, easyer, more stable, and lighter. I would love to use REBOL applets inside webpages, and surely most java users will follow us this way if RT open it. The difficult side is that Rebol plugin will have to adress the browser DOM and "talk with the javascript" to achieve interactivity with the rest of the document. These are not trivial functions to add (have to deal with OS AND browser software)... so i think RT would do better to end its work on the actual product line and documentation, and then decide to do it or not. My opinion is that RT have to provide such a plugin... but only after completion of current tasks (releasing Core/pro etc.).

 [13/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:41


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

 [14/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:54


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

 [15/18] from: drebol:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:30


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

 [16/18] from: dmurrill:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 11:04


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

 [17/18] from: inetw3:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 13:24


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

 [18/18] from: drebol:mindspring at: 18-Apr-2001 13:09


When things seem to be funny, laugh silently with a smile, by your self. Some time ago,near the end of 1999, i suggested a browser pluggin by meging Rebol with another xml-to-java tool, i was politely asked if i was crazy, and the responder said basically i was babbling. i sent another email expressing that every strong internetworked product distributed through www for applications should have a browser pluggin to be accepted for that class of people(www). I have the xml-to-activex-dhtml-java tool, it's open surce, and plugs in to web pages easily. I don't know Rebol that well yet but i think i could write a parser/dialect for Rebol VID. and use Rebol/Command runtime to package it if and when i have time. But i really believe Carl is smarter than us all, so we may be just skinning (that cat) too soon.

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