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No Don`t Leave Re: Re licence.key for SDK

 [1/10] from: jonwhispa:googlemail at: 27-May-2008 21:13


----- Original Message ----- From: "Srini Iyengar" <idsrini-gmail.com> To: <rebolist-rebol.com> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:42 AM Subject: [REBOL] Re: Re licence.key for SDK
> Hi Gregg, > Could you please set me up with an ALTME account on the main REBOL
<<quoted lines omitted: 11>>
>> -- Gregg >>
It`s waaaaaay too quiet here. Srini don`t totally forget us here, a lot of people dont like email, but it`s a good public forum and that gets the message out on the web. Try asking here first and maybe that`ll encourage a bit more activity. (I should be asking more myself) I`ve been here from pretty much the start, with a few large gaps, but I`m still pretty clueless compared to some of the guys. It would be good to get it back to the days when Rebol was first released to the public. Seem to recall lots of excitement on the list about the words what and "probe system", Larry wall (perl guy) commenting on some rebol source saying "I`ve no Idea what that does". Looking forward to R3 arriving, maybe I`ll soon be one of the "now I get it" guys :) Best ask a question... Until the web realizes that RML (rebol markup language) is the future, anybody know if its possible to render html inside a rebol window? Jon

 [2/10] from: gregg:pointillistic at: 27-May-2008 14:36


Hi Jon, C> a lot of people dont like email, but it`s a good public forum and C> that gets the message out on the web. I agree. C> Until the web realizes that RML (rebol markup language) is the C> future, anybody know if its possible to render html inside a rebol C> window? Nope, or at least not without so much effort that I haven't seen anyone do it. -- Gregg

 [3/10] from: carl::cybercraft::co::nz at: 28-May-2008 13:33


On Tuesday, 27-May-2008 at 14:36:01 Gregg Irwin wrote,
>Hi Jon, > >C> a lot of people dont like email, but it`s a good public forum and >C> that gets the message out on the web. > >I agree.
Me too. Little noise here and it looks like REBOL's dead, especially for anyone who takes the time to compare it with the list's archive from a few year's back.
>C> Until the web realizes that RML (rebol markup language) is the >C> future, anybody know if its possible to render html inside a rebol >C> window? > >Nope, or at least not without so much effort that I haven't seen >anyone do it.
It has to be just a dialect away, surely? ;-) -- Carl.

 [4/10] from: idsrini:gma:il at: 28-May-2008 20:32


Hi Guys, I agree that this is a good forum also .......... Now that I've got the /Pro version, I'll be developing some proto apps.... The ability to develop business appns hinges on the software allowing access to databases. Now that Rebol has made the /Pro version free, it would be easier to develop appns using Sqlite. At least there is access to a database. Lack of access to a database puts off a lot of developers ..... Also, there are opportunities for indies like me to use this to demo to clients / prospects. It reminds me of the good old dbase III and Clipper days. Also the roboustness of Rebol can be tested for business applications.... Given the advent of the web, developing web applications also is an important aspect..... In ASP.NET there are server side control that make it easy to develop web pages. Is there an equivalent in Rebol or does one need to render web pages by throwing HTML code....... Also, HTML is not a very effective way for developing RUI (Rich User Interfaces). To this end Adobe and other companies have their own mechanisms to enable a Rich User Experience. Is it possible to have a client user interface (VID / REBGUI) and access the data over the net from a database kept on a web server? In such a case, the data needs to be transported over HTTP or HTTPS. Is there an equivalent of Web Services available in REBOL? In such a scenario, end users can have the best of both worlds, Rich User Experience over the WEB. Given Rebol's small size, this would not impact any response times and the issues with installation are virtually non-existent with Rebol..... Of course, there may be security issues..... Regards, Srini On 28/05/2008, CarleySimon <jonwhispa-googlemail.com> wrote:

 [5/10] from: gregg:pointillistic at: 28-May-2008 10:20


Hi Srini, SI> In ASP.NET there are server side control that make it easy to SI> develop web pages. Is there an equivalent in Rebol or does one SI> need to render web pages by throwing HTML code....... You need to generate the HTML. There is the BUILD-MARKUP function to help with that, and there is the RSP framework as well. SI> Is it possible to have a client user interface (VID / REBGUI) and access the SI> data over the net from a database kept on a web server? In such a case, the SI> data needs to be transported over HTTP or HTTPS. Is there an equivalent of SI> Web Services available in REBOL? In such a scenario, end users can have the SI> best of both worlds, Rich User Experience over the WEB. http://www.rebol.net/rs/ There is also Rugby, Maarten's brokering middleware. You can do pretty much anything you want with REBOL, but it often means rolling your own pieces, or working with not-quite-production- ready modules and such. -- Gregg

 [6/10] from: idsrini::gmail::com at: 28-May-2008 23:51


Hi Gregg, Thanks...... Will look into it..... -- Srini On 28/05/2008, Gregg Irwin <gregg-pointillistic.com> wrote:

 [7/10] from: moliad:gma:il at: 29-May-2008 23:01


Hi Srini, --rich clients-- Rebol has a rich client version for embeding into web pages. basically its the whole of rebol/view (non pro, can't remember exactly what version) which resides within a embed/object tag, like you'd do with flash. I've used it sucessfully in commercial apps, even doing 4-way async tcp/http xfers to several servers at a time, doing altme-style synching of multiple live clients. got to be carefull though as it has full access to your disk, so its <possible> for a malicious user to fill the disk, that's the main security flaw. so I'd only recommend it for apps where the clients are within a well secured/controled environment. but its a very easy way to distribute rebol apps, and with VID's stylesheet mechanism, its pretty easy to match your web page's look. --databases-- Rebol has a very proficient interface to mysql. I've used it many times and it supports v5 of mysql. might want to look into it: http://softinnov.org/rebol/mysql.shtml --web-- People keep forgetting about REMARK, and I find this really annoying. Its one of my tools and has been in production use for a few years. It is based on a html/rebol hybrid markup language, where you define custom HTML tags which are defined as dialects. Remark is fully documented. Creating custom tags is VERY easy, and requires no advanced Rebol knowledge. Altough using it through CGI is not supported AS-IS it would require little work for one to change the main application into accepting a single page and running the engine against it. I use it to preparse all of my html stuff into ready to run html. Separation of layout/style and data is genuine, unlike most other technologies which promise this. Some people even use it to preparse their css and javascript files using custom tags which get replaced. a good feature of remark, is that you can leverage dynamic tags within each other without dependency. this means that you can actually create recursive tags, which I have done just for fun. http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/retools/remark/index.html remark engine development is still ongoing (current target is a full php replacement plus all the benefits of remark itself), but latest prototypes are not usefull to anyone, and progress is slow (cause its a hobby project). have fun reboling, and welcome to the familly :-) -MAx On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Srini Iyengar <idsrini-gmail.com> wrote:

 [8/10] from: moliad::gmail::com at: 29-May-2008 23:03


btw, mysql libs above never needed a pro version AFAIK. -MAx On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:01 PM, Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch <moliad-gmail.com> wrote:

 [9/10] from: idsrini::gmail::com at: 30-May-2008 11:34


Hi MAx, Thank for the info....... --rich clients-- --Rebol has a rich client version for embeding into web pages. --basically its the whole of rebol/view (non pro, can't remember exactly --what version) which resides within a embed/object tag, like you'd do --with flash. Are you referring to the Rebol Plugin ? If so, I suppose development is fairly straightforward.... --web-- --People keep forgetting about REMARK, and I find this really annoying. --Its one of my tools and has been in production use for a few years. --It is based on a html/rebol hybrid markup language, where you define --custom HTML tags which are defined as dialects. I visited the remark site, and did not see any downloadables there. However, the custom tags - RTAGS - are quite good. I quote from the site documentation "They are the core api of the remark engine. All custom tags are implented within the engine as RTAGS. Adding new tags is trivial, coding smart tags is a great deal of fun. There is theoretically no limit to what an rtag can do, as it evaluates REBOL code when a tag is found. You could even do inserts WITHIN a database whenever a page is parsed, or do queries FROM a database to get data from it." In such a case, surely intelligent tags can be easily written to make development of web pages a breeze, rather than the current painful approach generally. Could you throw more light on this.... Remark, as I understand it, is a tool to create and maintain web sites - A web site management and admin tool. However there is need for integration with CGI/FASTCGI to make it a tool for developing web sites with access to databases, etc. I may be completely wrong here.... please feel free to correct me.....Possibly need access to CGI thru Custom Tags to ensure that the data sent to the user is dynamic and latest.....OR Possibly use it in conjuncton with regular CGI and throw HTML code using Custom Tags by preparsing the tags ....... Regarding database access, I had mentioned with reference to Sqlite, beacuse of it size. I had not, at that point, investigated MySql. And while we're at it.... Are there any charting tools available for Rebol (commercial and/or free) ? ...In today's world, presentation and visualization of information and data are increasingly playing an important role and such tools go a long way in enabling businesses take decisions quickly or at least help them identify problem areas..... And MAx - what's the latest on STEEL and the SLIM library.........., if I may ask...... --Srini On 30/05/2008, Maxim Olivier-Adlhoch <moliad-gmail.com> wrote:

 [10/10] from: moliad::gmail::com at: 4-Jun-2008 22:34


On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Srini Iyengar <idsrini-gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi MAx, > Thank for the info.......
<<quoted lines omitted: 5>>
> Are you referring to the Rebol Plugin ? If so, I suppose development is > fairly straightforward....
yep, like any rebol/view app. The only detail is where is puts the user files which are normally cached in your user dir. with the plugin version, its deep within the internet temp dirs.
> --web-- > --People keep forgetting about REMARK, and I find this really annoying.
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> I visited the remark site, and did not see any downloadables there. However, > the custom tags - RTAGS - are quite good.
I wonder how you missed it, hehe, there is a download link on the main menu: http://www.pointillistic.com/open-REBOL/moa/steel/retools/remark/downloads.html the whole engine is in one .zip file, with the online help given as an example source site. all in all, it should take less than half an hour to download and complete the dynamic tag tutorial, and rebuild your own version of the help files on your system.
> I quote from the site documentation "They[RTAGS] are the core api of the remark > engine. All custom tags are implented within the engine as RTAGS. Adding new > tags is trivial, coding smart tags is a great deal of fun. There is > theoretically no limit to what an rtag can do,
[...]
> In such a case, surely intelligent tags can be easily written to make > development of web pages a breeze, rather than the current painful approach > generally. Could you throw more light on this....
yes, you simply create new pseudo HTML tags (rtags), which parse their content and return new (html) content. since you can return dynamic rtags within this new content, the parser checks to see if the new content has to be reparsed it does so persistently, until there are no rtags left. be carefull not to return yourself within your content, or else, parsing will never end.
> Remark, as I understand it, is a tool to create and maintain web sites - A > web site management and admin tool.
pretty much. you can parse a whole site, it detects what pages have changed, and you can also xfer the whole site to a remote ftp with one click. you can also do stuff like erase the remote site prior to uploading the new one, in order to prevent stray pages.
> However there is need for integration > with CGI/FASTCGI to make it a tool for developing web sites with access to
<<quoted lines omitted: 3>>
> conjuncton with regular CGI and throw HTML code using Custom Tags by > preparsing the tags .......
yes, and remark v2 is aimed at adding dynamic parsing of pages via cgi, and later on apache & cheyenne modules rather than preparsed. currently, you could still simplify your development, by creating tags which will return rebol CGI code instead of html. basically, this would allow you to embed your cgi within a cleaner layout which deals only with html. ex: <cgi! trace-access: on <HEADER!> <SUBMENU!> <TITLE! login:> <FORM! %login.r <COLUMN! <FIELD! "Enter name:" user: "Srini"> <PASSFIELD! "Enter password" password: ""> <SUBMIT-BUTTON!>
>
<FOOTER!>
this would return a rebol cgi file, which has things like the shebang on the first line, the cgi! tag could also put error recovery code, form data preflight like post-back loading. the form tags could then add their data to the html (not printing anything until the page is done), verifying post-back in order to set values instead of using the defaults (which are specified above using set-words:). the form filepath would be resolved according to cgi-bin automatically, etc. this is just an example of what you could build up. in the next version of remark, instead of prebuilding your cgi files, the above, would be run on the fly, and no "intermediate" rebol file would be generated. I've already got the basics done, I rebuilt the basic parser and its 10 to 50 times faster and is much more robust. Its now a library which can be embeded in any code. It also allows one to replace custom tags on the fly, even while a page is parsing. This allows you to switch sets of tags on the fly, rather than checking for options within each tag (faster generation). This is especially usefull when only look and feel change (printable version, different languages, etc).
> And while we're at it.... Are there any charting tools available for Rebol > (commercial and/or free) ? ...In today's world, presentation and > visualization of information and data are increasingly playing an important > role and such tools go a long way in enabling businesses take decisions > quickly or at least help them identify problem areas.....
not sure, you'd have to check on the rebol.org, there might be stuff. I know some people have tackled this, but I don't remember what is available, or noteworthy.
> And MAx - what's the latest on STEEL and the SLIM library.........., if I > may ask......
well, slim has been working for years, providing module management without issue for all of my codebase. STEEL is a collection of tools, so they are in perpetual flux, but since most of what I do in REBOL is hobby, the web site has very low priority. I even have many tools, which have never been released publicly, for a few reasons. The rebol community is a strange one, usually prefering their own tools, its part of being a reboler I guess. Documentation is often raised as an issue, but remark is a good example that this isn't always the case. I always wanted the STEEL stuff to be collaborative, with a few people updating, documenting, improving the code, etc, but such collaboration is rare, sparse and usually related to specific projects. I just have too many huge (and some conceptually complex) APIs and libs for me to be providing full featured docs and tutorials on my own. I get so few real requests, that putting hundreds of hours into it is not worth it. I seem like I'm complaining hehe, but I'm not. I'm just relating actual experience. This being said, I have some users here and there, and I support them directly when they have issues. If you'd like to try out remark and have some questions while doing so, please send them via this list, it will help raise awareness about remark. have fun! -MAx

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