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rebol/view on a 486?

 [1/11] from: kolla:nvg:ntnu:no at: 20-Jun-2001 16:23


Hi! So it seems I might find real usage of rebol/view after all... :) One of our scientists studies memory patterns on birds, and to do this he uses the following.. an acorn risc PC with touch screen and a BBC program he've written himself, which does the following: A screen (full screen, not a window) pops up displaying two pictures. The bird picks one picture and peck on the touch screen (which is trated as a simple mouseclick), if correct picture was pecked, the bird gets a nice surprice. This is repeated over and over till either the bird is stuffed or enough data is gathered. The idea is to see how well and long the birds can remember which picture that will give them food. :) Anyways, as I mention this was all previously done on Acorn RiscPCs and the program was written in BBC basic. Unfortunatly, a RiscPCs is a very rare sight here in Norway, and at some point one have to forward anyhow, and since we have our basement filled with old 486DX2-50 machines, we thought we might use those instead. Now, maybe one can port the BBC basic code to run on these, but I kinda doubt because of the graphical stuff involved. So, after a while I got came to the idea of using rebol/view :) Writing the program shouldnt be much of a problem, all it does is the above as well as gathering the info on how many pecks were wrong or right etc. but one thing I am a little concerned about is how well /view runs on such a 486, and what OS to use below would be the best to get as little overhead as possible, the choices are limited by the avaible drivers for the touch screens; Linux/X11 and Win9x. I might be able to dig up a few pentium100 machines to use instead, but if I could use those 486s it would be splended :) -- kolla

 [2/11] from: jean:holzammer:faedv-n:bayern at: 21-Jun-2001 8:34


>Writing the program shouldnt be much of a problem, all it does is
the above
>as well as gathering the info on how many pecks were wrong or right
etc. but
>one thing I am a little concerned about is how well /view runs on
such a 486,
>and what OS to use below would be the best to get as little
overhead as
>possible, the choices are limited by the avaible drivers for the
touch screens;
>Linux/X11 and Win9x. I might be able to dig up a few pentium100
machines to
>use instead, but if I could use those 486s it would be splended :)
CPU: I'm using /view on a 68060/50 (comparable to a Pentium I with same frequency). I only use it for creating images and as has some function (write clipboard://...) not yet available in current /Core. I try to avoid to actually view something on the screen as it is too slow. When typing text into an input field it takes almost 1 sec. for one character to be drawn ! So I think, using view on a 486 or a Pentium I/100 for the GUI doesn't make much sense. OS: Rebol need at least Win 95 that will run quite slowly itself on a 486. Linux itself should be a bit faster, but graphics is slowed down by X. Jean

 [3/11] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 21-Jun-2001 11:23


> So I think, using view on a 486 or a Pentium I/100 for the GUI > doesn't make much sense. >
I have to admit that I am using /View on [AMDK5--90] Mhz (which is PentiumI-like procesor) at my home for developing and it is still VERY usable. Even simple 3D vector /View graphics is fast enough on it. The main problem is in memory usage. First I had only 16MB RAM which was relly Rebol Nightmare. Then I bought another 64MB and Rebol fly on it! Here is my summary of experience with Rebol on different CPUs. Maybe This could help people to decide what machine is suitable for their work. CPU + RAM PRODUCT COMMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - [MC68000--7Mhz] Rebol/Core Not bad usability. I was doing under that CPU few cgi-scripts for Chesster Web(incl. 30Kb chess-core.r!) 8MB Ram [MC68060--50Mhz] Rebol/View Edge of usability. (First versions of SWIS was developed on that CPU!) 32MB Ram [AMDK5--90Mhz] Rebol/View Works well for most GUI aplications but don't expect too much when using realtime effects,big bitmaps... 80MB Ram [PentiumIMMX--200Mhz] Rebol/View This is a cutting edge for using rebol /View IMO. Works great, usable for almost everything. 64MB Ram Everything over 200Mhz is FAAAST ;-) Regards, Cyphre

 [4/11] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Jun-2001 21:51


On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:23:13 +0200 "Richard Smolak" <[cyphre--volny--cz]> wrote:
> under that CPU few cgi-scripts for Chesster Web(incl. > 30Kb chess-core.r!)
Change of topic - can you get to your chess game online? I think I tried several times but your web site confused me .. -- Graham Chiu

 [5/11] from: petr:krenzelok:trz:cz at: 21-Jun-2001 11:46


Richard Smolak wrote:
> > > > So I think, using view on a 486 or a Pentium I/100 for the GUI
<<quoted lines omitted: 25>>
> 64MB Ram > Everything over 200Mhz is FAAAST ;-)
I agree only partially. What is fast is native supported stuff. But once you user Rebol language level, e.g. image pick/pokeing, you are slow even on large sut-ups. Anyone for mp3 rebol encoder or divx player? :-) -pekr-

 [6/11] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 21-Jun-2001 12:35


> Change of topic - can you get to your chess game online? I > think I tried several times but your web site confused me .. >
Sure, it is on-line chess game and it runs well even I didn't take care of the site/scripts more than 6 months ;-) Basically, it is a little multi-user/purpose web-system. We (RUR team - Oldes, REBOLek and me ) made it just for fun, while learning first steps in Rebol when we are unemployed(we tried to make its own Rebol-Based RUR internet solutions company but without succes...we didn't find any manager/investor/project in Czech republic so RUR is gone and instead of making great rebol apps we have to re-make strange macromedia stuff or even worse work for M$ :(( and Reboling only in a free time). There is also Simple html chat and Go! game in progress(accessible only for betatesters) on the site. I know the design of html interface is very simple and maybe chaotic(it is still beta version), but I have not enough time to enhance the site,make some gfx and JS stuff since I was busy in my work and with deveopling of my personal /View stuff during the nights (doing SWIS is a lot of fun (: ). Maybe one day Chesster will be finished... Anyway I would appreciate any support for making it beter(comments,sugestions, cooperation). Regards Cyphre

 [7/11] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 21-Jun-2001 23:09


On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:35:13 +0200 "Richard Smolak" <[cyphre--volny--cz]> wrote:
> > Change of topic - can you get to your chess game > online? I
<<quoted lines omitted: 4>>
> didn't take care of > the site/scripts more than 6 months ;-) Basically, it is
I couldn't get past your gatekeeper script - forgot my password etc. Internal Server Error The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. Please contact the server administrator, [pekr--rebol--cz] and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error. More information about this error may be available in the server error log. -- Graham Chiu

 [8/11] from: kolla:nvg:ntnu:no at: 21-Jun-2001 14:11


On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Holzammer, Jean wrote:
> >Writing the program shouldnt be much of a problem, all it does is the > >above as well as gathering the info on how many pecks were wrong or right
<<quoted lines omitted: 10>>
> text into an input field it takes almost 1 sec. for one character to be > drawn !
You dont say if you have a gfx card on your amiga or not, and I do know how fast rebol/view is on my a3k/060/CVPPC/cgfx :) But in genereal I experience rebol/view on PC as faster anyways, yesterday I used it one a P120 with win98, and it worked faster than on my amiga. I had problems testing it on a 486 with win95 due to lacking DLLs in win95 (MSVCRT.DLL and COM*32.DLL, maybe something that should be mentioned in the installation documentation?!)
> So I think, using view on a 486 or a Pentium I/100 for the GUI doesn't make > much sense. > > OS: Rebol need at least Win 95 that will run quite slowly itself on a 486.
In 640x480x8bit.. nah, ok :)
> Linux itself should be a bit faster, but graphics is slowed down by X.
Exactly, X is the bugger here. -- kolla

 [9/11] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 21-Jun-2001 14:13


Hi Graham, Strange??? It works ok from my machine. Are you using some proxy server? I tried to log-in with your username end everything is ok. I'll send you your password privately so please try it and reeport any problems please. Regards, Cyphre

 [10/11] from: petr::krenzelok::trz::cz at: 21-Jun-2001 14:24


Richard Smolak wrote:
> Hi Graham, > > Strange??? It works ok from my machine. Are you using some proxy server? I > tried to log-in with your username end everything is ok. > I'll send you your password privately so please try it and reeport any > problems please.
Hi :-) I've received the same error once I left my form empty and pressed the button. Is such case solved? :-) -pekr-

 [11/11] from: cyphre:volny:cz at: 21-Jun-2001 14:50


Hi PeKr :)
> Hi :-) I've received the same error once I left my form empty and pressed
the
> button. Is such case solved? :-) >
ups! ;-) Looks like I have to repair it! Anyway, this is just minor problem...login is working ok. Regards Cyphre

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