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Hackers...

 [1/7] from: g::santilli::tiscalinet::it at: 16-May-2003 15:12


Hello all, I was just reading Paul Graham's article linked from compkarori's vanilla; everytime I read P.G. articles it is difficult for me to remember he's not talking about REBOL. For example: "The right way to collaborate, I think, is to divide projects into sharply defined modules, each with a definite owner, and with interfaces between them that are as carefully designed and, if possible, as articulated as programming languages." If you call the "interfaces ... as articulated as programming languages" "dialects" you'll soon feel like at home. I think someone should really convince Paul Graham to subscribe to this list and stay here for a couple months. I'm sure, he would find himself at home. (And we would have infected an important node, as Graham Chiu suggested. ;-) http://www.paulgraham.com/hp.html Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [2/7] from: greggirwin:mindspring at: 16-May-2003 7:52


Hi Gabriele, GS> I was just reading Paul Graham's article linked from GS> compkarori's vanilla; everytime I read P.G. articles it is GS> difficult for me to remember he's not talking about REBOL. I agree Gabriele! I don't know that he'll become a convert, since he's designing his own language right now, but I think the points he makes in many of his articles apply directly to REBOL as well as Lisp (which makes sense given its heritage). I imagine he's aware of REBOL, at least to some extent, and it will no doubt be lurking in his subconcious as he works on Arc. It will be interesting to see how it turns out. :) -- Gregg

 [3/7] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 16-May-2003 17:17


Hi Gregg, On Friday, May 16, 2003, 3:52:19 PM, you wrote: GI> I agree Gabriele! I don't know that he'll become a convert, since he's GI> designing his own language right now, Of course; however, REBOL is too easily underestimated IMHO. You need to get to really use it to understand the new approach that it offers; from the outside, it doesn't look so original as it is... Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [4/7] from: andreas:bolka:gmx at: 16-May-2003 17:11


Friday, May 16, 2003, 4:17:39 PM, Gabriele wrote:
> On Friday, May 16, 2003, 3:52:19 PM, you wrote: >> I agree Gabriele! I don't know that he'll become a convert, since >> he's designing his own language right now, > Of course; however, REBOL is too easily underestimated IMHO. You > need to get to really use it to understand the new approach that it > offers; from the outside, it doesn't look so original as it is...
Why should e.g. Paul Graham "switch"? What would be the "new approach" that REBOL offers him? -- Best regards, Andreas mailto:[andreas--bolka--gmx--net]

 [5/7] from: ishtahara:yaho:o at: 16-May-2003 13:06


--- Gabriele Santilli wrote:
> If you call the "interfaces ... as articulated > as programming languages" "dialects" you'll soon > feel like at home.
As convert to the REBOL cause will envision the future through such a lens. E.g, Python, Ruby or Lua programmers might similarly adopt Paul's concepts to their worldview.
> I think someone should really convince Paul Graham > to subscribe to this list and stay here for a > couple months.
As good as REBOL is, it is probably not easy to attract someone as busy or as focused as Paul Graham. Part of being a smart/efficient guru is the practice of keeping a small number of doors open and close all the rest. Turning the tables, imagine Carl's reaction if you told him how incredible Arc is, and that he should set aside some time to explore the Arc community. Carl would probably not take this up unless there were clear benefits for REBOL. The difference I see is: - On his website, Paul Graham writes intelligent articles that draw potential developer/industry & mindshare to his project. Paul is a good writer with strong opinions, but if he wrote less prose, might Arc be released by now? - REBOL.com offers intelligent tools and code that are in major release. It is available now. Carl is an action guy; he lets REBOL speak for itself. Therefore there is very little opinion or commentary on REBOL.com. However, REBOL does not demonstrate rapid progress. When momentum is lost, there is little to provide fuel for social networking. ~ D

 [6/7] from: g:santilli:tiscalinet:it at: 17-May-2003 10:19


Hi Andreas, On Friday, May 16, 2003, 6:11:18 PM, you wrote: AB> Why should e.g. Paul Graham "switch"? What would be the "new approach" AB> that REBOL offers him? If you read his articles, you find out that REBOL already does the things that he wants a language to do. The "new approach" is the values layer I talked about in earlier posts; this is what allows REBOL to be so small and simple and still so powerful and productive. Regards, Gabriele. -- Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> -- REBOL Programmer Amigan -- AGI L'Aquila -- REB: http://web.tiscali.it/rebol/index.r

 [7/7] from: gchiu:compkarori at: 18-May-2003 12:43


On Sat, 17 May 2003 10:19:17 +0200 Gabriele Santilli <[g--santilli--tiscalinet--it]> wrote:
>If you read his articles, you find out that REBOL already >does the >things that he wants a language to do.
And if anyone wishes to complain about the lack of continuations and tail call recursion, I've reprinted Holger's article here: http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/display/Language+Theory -- Graham Chiu http://www.compkarori.com/vanilla/